One thing just came to my mind. I'm owning an EMPEG some weeks now and i am very happy with it so far. I also own a Toshiba Libretto 50CT subnote, and so the following came to my mind.

The 50CT for those who don't know, is a full PC with a P-120 Processor, with all the fancy thing we are all waiting for, PCMCIA, network, etc. It comes with a nice 640*480 32K color VGA display, etc etc. It goes, used or refurbished, for about $500.

SInce i overclocked mine, i had to strip away all the parts around, the case, the keyboard, display, battery, etc. What you have left is a very very small mobo which fit's into a DIN-slot with no problems. I guess even 4 of those mainboards will fit in a DIN slot. So fill up the DIN slot with a single mobo, you could place lots of periphicals around it, some disks, a hardware MP3 decoder, etc etc. Also, you have PCMCIA, USB, serial, parallell, IrDA, you name it.

What i was thinking about it to build up my own 'Auto-PC' - take the inside of the libretto, make it fit into a DIN slot case. Add a hardware MP3 decoder to it. Then, take the keyboard and the display, extend their connectors (flat printed ribbon cables) and mount that somewhere in the car. In the end, it will be a full, little PC where you can run whatever you want - Linux, NT, WIndows, whatever.

What do you think about that ? Now, another, stupid, dumb, silly, slap my face idea was, if i would be the EMPEG folks, i probably would have gone to toshiba and license their libretto board design and built the empeg on top of it. I mean, whenever we ask for hardware things to be put in new empeg releases, the common answer is it cannot be done because of room or missing features of this and that. If you look at the libretto mobo on the other hand, you will see what IS possible to be placed into a volume probably 1/3rd of the EMPEG size.

Now, i know the answer is reliability. The only thing i can say is, i'm carrying the libretto around for over a year now in my bag. throwing it here and there, and it still works :-) I got rain, ice-tea, coffee, pouring into the unit, and - to my suprise - it still works...i think it's great and i would love to see that unit in my car...

Any opinions ? Thanks, Jo

Well, there you go - now all you need to do is acquire some capital, create a company, talk to Tosh & Bob's yer proverbial!

Good luck...

Bad bad boy :)
I have a Libretto myself, and it is much too cute to slaughter it :)
( Well i opened it up to overclock it from 166 -> 266 MHz MMX, but thats all messing around :)

But you are right, this baby could do all you need, i just think the empeg solution is more elegant and i bet, the line out's of the empeg produce a better quality then the Libretto's crappy Soundcard ...
( In fact i had the Libretto on my Seat as a MP3 Player for a while, but the Line Out is a bit noisy, on the other hand, if the engine is on, WHO CARES )

Hmm, what i like about the empeg is that it is a NICE Solution, not something amateur-like-put-together ...
( Empeg looks ugly, but i will have a nice front plate out of alloy or so, to be done with a CNC Machine soon ... )


Nils

By the way -> Please empeggers, build a nice metal front plate with engraved name and serial number, i am willing to pay for something nice, right now it looks like russian army design, the good thing is that ANYONE could buy it and change the front by himself ...

Good idea. Now all you need to do is:-

1) Work out a way to incorporate a power supply that'll handle being stuck inside a dashboard in conditions from -30 through to 130 degrees.

2) Screen the board to meet all the stringent RFI regs floating around these days.

3) Fit in an extra soundcard and pre-amp to give you a sensible line level and multi-channel output.

4) Design and build a means by which to control it whilst driving.

5) Hope and pray Tosh develop their product along lines that suit your planned developments.

Etc, etc.....

I've had this discussion with people before now, and it's easy to say you could do it. In reality, just those 5 points above are going to cause you enough problems - and you'll probably find yourself cursing at the fact you chose generic parts.

Anyone can build an in-car MP3 player - Hugo's even made some info available online that'd make the task easier (I'm still waiting for Linux DVD drivers to become available so I can put the spare mobo and DVD drive I've got sitting here to good use, and Hugo's info means I can build a power supply nice and easily). The key point is though, Hugo (and the rest of the Empeg team) have actually taken that idea and built it into something that's nearing the point where it's useable by the average computer user.

I was lucky enough to get the job of installing the Empeg into Hugo's MX5/Miata - part of the job was to remove the original prototype MP3Mobile unit Hugo built that started all of this. To an outside observer, it was a pretty cool bit of kit. Nice display, custom case, numeric keypad to control it all, line-out to connect to the existing radio-cassette in the car. In reality though, there was no way you could ever give this to the average man on the street and expect them to figure it out.

Harware's cheap - and these days, just about anything's possible. Creating a finished, professional end product though - that's a different matter.

Dominic

Cambridge Car Audio
http://www.cambscaraudio.co.uk

I think you've missed the point slightly.. our processing engine occupies about a quarter of the main board, and provides a 220Mhz RISC processor with a significant amount of IO and other features (I'll get to that in a sec).

The rest of the board is the power supply (which keeps the sensitive circuitry running under terrible input voltage conditions), the ICE DSP (hardware EQ etc) and the audio stage. That's the clever bit of the hardware, but the clever bit of the product overall is the software - it might seem simple, but you'd be surprised how many man hours have gone into it, and as companies go, we work FAST!

OK, now to open a whole can of worms... :-)

Visitors to Comdex will have seen the prototype of our next production model. It's the good old empeg that you all know and love, but with some extra bells and whistles.. First is on-board 10BaseT ethernet, which will be offered as an option on a special edition model aimed at developers. Then there's an extra 4Mb of RAM, giving 12Mb as standard, and a front panel control (gradiated rotary with push function). The display is unchanged although there's an LCD interface inside, for which we have no plans at the moment. Red display panels will be available (we finally found one that works with IR). The tuner has been removed from inside the player - instead we've created an external tuner interface, for which we will produce an AM/FM/RDS module initially, with DAB planned for the future. A cell phone muting input is provided, and the wiring loom has moved to a standard ISO connector. The grounding leads are nolonger required, and all filters are integral to the player and/or wiring loom.

I saved the best til last - we've licenced some very sophisticated voice recognition technology and fitted a microphone input. Proper nouns (e.g. artist/track names etc) can be taught to the system via the PC software, so you can simply tell the empeg what you want to listen to and it will deliver.

I hope this proves (if proof were needed) that we listen to what our clients have to say. Many (probably most) of these features have been requested by empeg owners and we are very pleased to be able to deliver them. Component shortages are holding up production a little, and in practice this model is likely to start shipping during March.

There will be very attractive upgrade or trade-in deals for existing empeg owners, but don't ask for details just yet because we haven't finalised them. Be assured that the current model will continue to be fully supported, although, of course, features that rely upon new hardware will only appear on players that can support them. Existing owners will be able to benefit fully from new software features that do not require new hardware, e.g. WMA support and so forth.

Apart from Comdex visitors, you guys are the first to hear this. More comprehensive details will go out in a newsletter very soon.

You still want that Libretto? :-)

Rob

There's the downside to being an early adopter

Guess we'll have to wait to hear what the upgrade options are... better start saving... again!!

Just one question... will the existing cage accomodate the new model? Or are the outputs redesigned?

Dammit, now I've got to wait all over again!!

Geoff
---- -------
Reg No. 554, s/n 00064 - It's mine I tell you.... all mine :)

We'll definitely look after our early adopters - without feedback from you guys the new model wouldn't even exist!

The new player will have a different docking connector, because we've made a lot of changes to make the product easier to manufacture (the current player takes ages to assemble). We also need to get more signals across for the external tuner, microphone etc.

As for waiting, I don't think it will be a problem. The first batch is 1000 players, and early adopters will be offered a priority position. We are set up to manufacture very large quantities from there on, if there's demand. We think there will be :-)

Rob

And if it wasn't for you guys we'd have had nothing to adopt :-)

Is this new prototype the mysterious 'prototype/patricia' with serial no. 99992 that appeared on Verement's registry in the last day or so?

Geoff
---- -------
Reg No. 554, s/n 00064 - It's mine I tell you.... all mine :)

I was seriously considering building my own MP-3 player, to the point of being within a few days of starting to order parts. But, being of an organized sort of mindset, I started listing the problems that had to be solved, and some of them were totally insurmountable given the resources available to me.

Jfranke, the software aspect of the project alone would absolutely bury you should you attempt to create something truly useful. You have to have a way of databasing the titles, then be able to sort on various parameters so you can put the music you want to hear into a playlist. Oh, yeah, you have to design some sort of playlist function too. Don't forget you'll need some sort of user interface... Stabilized power supply.... hard drives large enough and rugged enough to be useful... how do you get the music into the unit... by the time you're done, you'll have vastly more money in the project than buying an empeg, particularly if you value your time at anything more than minimum wage. Oh, hell, even at a dollar an hour you'll have more time invested than an empeg would cost you. Hugo and crew saved me from a terribly expensive mistake.

On the other hand, if you've got the time, and place a great value on the personal satisfaction you would attain by completing such a project, have at it. I'm guessing that the empeg crew has literally tens of thousands of man hours invested in developing this unit. That's a pretty big head start!

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

And to think that until now I was cursing the fact that my queue number was #8741. Rob, this little disclosure may put a pretty big bite in your orders... I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I think I'm gonna wait!

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

seems that items like this are constantly being upgraded/etc.. At some point, you just have to say "i'm tired of waiting"...

If you waited for the next best thing in PC computers, you'd never buy a new computer...
-mark

I also wanted to build an mp3 player.. but at the time I was considering it, the empeg was just a dream in hugo's head and his player was the venerable mp3mobile. So, I undertook building my own, with an lcd screen and custom software. It is designed very much like the original mp3mobile; it is so much more than the typical old pc thrown in the trunk with an inverter. I am one of those who does get satisfaction out of doing my own thing, and also I have more upgrade options with my setup.. I plan on adding battery backup to power the custom dc powersupply while the car is off, remote powerup, and wireless networking to the whole deal, which in effect will allow me to update the hard drive from my desk inside.

However, it has ended up costing me 1000 so far, and with networking equipment looks to be more like 1600. I have spent countless hours over a period of 5 months doing linux programming, some of it very frustrating.

But after that was done (and it is) I am very satisfied with the final product. Everyone I describe it to says "Wow, can you build me one of those?" and I say "I will never do this again, go buy an empeg." While it has been incredible amounts of work, it has made one person pretty pleased with himself.

Grant R

Patricia is a prototype for the current production model - I think it's Mike's development player, so I guess Mike was a bit bored when he put it in the database :-)

Folks don't get me wrong, this was no critism just my thoughts. I was wondering why not doing it with the libretty as a base. I used my libretto for playing MP's before the empeg. I agree the sounds sucks, but my idea was to run it together with a external MP3 decoder. Anyways, i do have an EMPEG now Yo! So the 'libretto project' is for fun only. BTW, i used the libretty in my car, in winter and summer, with no problems at all. I used a 12/220VAC converter as power-source, which is mounted permanently in my car (the best thing ever had in my car - besides the EMPEG :-) Why bother with all those power-adapter cables if you can run all you want on that converter...

To the NEW ENHANCED Empeg - WOW! This is what i WANT! And - i guess i will get one...i guess (hope).

Instead of (or as well as) the 10baseT port how about including a 100mbit RJ45 port? 10baseT is slower than USB as it is, and I guess gigabit is too expensive and a bit overkill.

Love the idea for the microphone / vox control :-) Can't wait to find out the upgrade options, I am not cancelling my order, I'm one of those that can't wait any longer!! (/me chomps at the bit)

In fantasy land: if you ever get a higher res screen then a zoomed video PCMCIA card socket would be sweet, that would take a TV tuner card real nice :-) Widescreen too! Hmmm, PCMCIA DVD...? Or how about a PCMCIA gps receiver (I'm sure you can get serial port ones already somewhere), couple that to an IrDA phone with a modem in it and it could dialout and send an email as the car is being stolen, in built Tracker type antitheft system would be a good selling point. Assuming you've welded the player into the car that is ;-)

I don't have my player yet, but if there isn't already how about some sort of decent locking mechanism to fix the player very firmly in it's car cradle? Could be controlled by a code rather than any visible mechanism that could be forced. Some iron bars and a little servo to shove them through some holes may do the trick. Even something not quite so advanced that would stop opportunists in petrol stations would be handy, or am I just being paranoid?

There aren't any plans to integrate a little mobile phone type transmitter/receiver are there? Getting the unit on the 'net while mobile would be pretty sweet. Where is the IrDA port located on the unit? (I haven't received my order yet) I wouldn't mind getting it talking to a mobile phone and using it to create a dialup connection. It would be handy to know now where I should think about mounting the phone so it's in range.

Regards
Simon

Awaiting delivery... #5833

> Folks don't get me wrong, this was no critism just my thoughts. I was
> wondering why not doing it with the libretty as a base.

Basically because it would be much larger, less powerful and much more expensive than our existing processing engine.

Rob

What? Are you implying that my Commodore 64 isn't good enough? I'm telling you, all this Microsoft and Intel stuff is nothing more than a passing fad, and before long we'll all be back using CPM. 64K of RAM is enough for anyone, I tell you!

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"