When I upgraded to v1.03 I used a developer image for the first time. I have noticed that the boot time on my empeg is slower than it used to be. This is a pain as I have to wait for it to boot twice when I start my car before I can actually start playing. Impatient, I know. Is there a difference in boot times between the developer and consumer images or is it just there is a more functionality in 1.03? If the latter is the case, how long will 1.1 take?

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Steve - 18GB Mk II Blue

Yes. There are extra things the boot sequence does in the developer that it doesn't need in the comsumer version. there are also different settings in the car or home boot sequence.
I don't quite know the details so I'll let Rob/Hugo/Tony/Frank et al explain the finer points.

Murray 06000047
I don't think, therefore I am not.

Thanks - at least I now know that I didn't do something funny to it when I did the install.

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Steve - 18GB Mk II Blue

2 bootups? why does it take 2 times to boot when you turn on your car? it sounds like you have a miss-wired installation.. what kind of car do you have this installed in

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

Thanks - at least I now know that I didn't do something funny to it when I did the install.

Actually, it sounds like you did do something funny.

If you've got a Mark 2, it should not try to boot until after you start the ignition. If you plug it into the dash, it should be dead as a doornail until you turn the key.

If it boots when you first plug it into the dash, that means the power-on-sense lead is connected to constant power instead of to the ignition-switched power.

Do you, by any chance, happen to drive an Audi or a VW? It might be the ISO-connector swapped-wires issue.

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Tony Fabris

You guys ... are you trying to wind me up? Actually, I used to have it installed in a Golf GTi. As soon as the key was in the ignition that was it ... POWER. I've changed it over to my Ford Escort and a) I have issues with my alarm and b) I've been waiting for my tuner before I incorporate the diode in-line with the power supply as I currently have a diode-less connector. At the moment if I get in the car in the morning (car in garage so no alarm) I have to put ignition to position 3, wait for power up (pressing alarm override while this is happening), wait for electric aerial to go down, start car (powers off the empeg) and wait for second boot before playing tunes. Otherwise, I run a high risk of shutdown meaning I have to pull empeg out of sled, wait a while and insert. I think I may have inadvertantly used an earth that was wired to the original stereo that was linked to the standard Ford alarm. I don't know. As I say, I was waiting for the Tuner before re-investigating as I am a great believer in 'If it ain't broke - don't fix it'

Hope this is not too incomprehensible - it's Saturday night - I've been watching DVDs and probably imbibing too much wine *hic*

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Steve - 18GB Mk II Blue

I just upgraded to the 1.03 consumer kernel for Mark2 and it's way slower on boot up. My Empeg used to take around 7 seconds to boot and play music, now with 1.03 it takes about 13 seconds. Does the kernel now have to look for a tuner module and that is what takes the extra time?

In a related note, I've only seen the "do not actually power down for 15 seconds" feature work once. Usually when I turn the ignition to off and then immediately flip to the accessory position, the Empeg has to do the entire boot sequence again.

In another related note, occasionally I've noticed that it isn't able to save the current playlist/song position in PROM at powerdown. One of these occurances was with my windshield wiper doing a sweep at the time. Could it be that the wipers were actually using more power and drained the power from the Empeg that it normally could use to program the PROM?

It's installed in a 1999 Jeep Cherokee Sport with power straight from the battery, Empeg and Amp grounds tied to same spot to avoid ground loops, and of course ignition signal wire is tied to the ignition.

-Ryan.

I've only seen the "do not actually power down for 15 seconds" feature work once. Usually when I turn the ignition to off and then immediately flip to the accessory position, the Empeg has to do the entire boot sequence again.

Sounds like the negative spike bug. Have you looked into that?


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Tony Fabris

It's strange that you need to do all that when you start your car. I don't understand it. But it sounds like you're doing all of this because of a problem with the alarm, not the Empeg, right?

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Tony Fabris

I have a similar situation in my Toyota PU. My alarm is a passively arming one so that 45 sec after I open and close the door the alarm arms. To enter I have to turn the key past ACC to START w/in 15 sec. Typically, I'm not ready to start the engine in that time, so I end up getting part way through a boot by the time I get ready to start the engine--though naughty me, I don't wait for the first boot to finish and just crank her over which initiates the second boot. I agree it does take too long, but I don't think it is looking for the tuner that is causing the delay.

More troubling for me (and I admit to not searching the database yet) is this: Sometimes, not always, when I turn ACC power on momentarily, the player boots up and then stays on playing--even when the key has been removed! This happens when I enter the armed vehicle and just want to disable the alarm by turning the key to START and then back off again (Toyotas have to have the clutch down to enable the starter so it safe to do w/o being in the seat...) ACC operation works as I would normally expect if I allow the boot to finish. The other morning I did this only to find the player meandering through the playlist when I got home that evening without me hearing the tracks--ARGH.

Fortunately, the player is slaved into the head unit so only the empeg was on and I still had battery life left.

Ah, no this is the first I've heard of the negative spike bug. But the FAQ explains it pretty well. I'll email tech support for that diode adapter and do the installation when I get my grubby hands on a tuner. I'll also be installing a cap so that the Empeg won't reboot when I put down two power windows at the same time.

Any idea why 1.03 takes longer to boot?

-Ryan.

The empeg shouldn't go through a full reboot during cranking (unless you need a diode lead - mk2's only, rio's had one built in). The empeg will run down to ~6v, and the battery doesn't usually go that low when cranking unless it's on its way out.

If you don't have the empeg's permanent 12v (yellow wire) wired to a permanent supply, some cars will turn off all other electrical items in the car during cranking, which would cause a full reboot.

Mk1's can't run below about 8-9v, and so do usually have to reboot after an engine start.

Hugo

Developer takes exactly the same amount of time to boot, unless you've installed any other toys.

The player takes longer to boot on home power, as it waits for upgrading.

v1.03 takes longer than (I think) v1.00 as we stretched the drive recognition time (waiting for both drives to appear) as a couple of users had problems with their upgraded units. This means 2 drive empegs usually boot quicker than single drive ones. This is something we'll address in v1.1, storing the number of drives found when on AC power so that booting in the car is quicker on single drive units.

Hugo

It's strange that you need to do all that when you start your car. I don't understand it. But it sounds like you're doing all of this because of a problem with the alarm, not the Empeg, right?

---

Partailly. If I get in the car and just try to fire her up without waiting for the empeg to boot then about 50% of the time the unit will be totally dead once the car is running requiring me to partially pull it from the sled, wait a few seconds and then re-insert. If my alarm as immobilised it requires me to either rearm disarm completely or just to press the button on the fob when the ignition is at position 3. If I have just got into the car and this happens, it means that I have to momentarily pause at ignition position 3 before actually starting the car (key fob pressing time). This pause means that I can actually see the empeg booting and I'm loathe to interrupt. Even then, I can't guarantee I'll have empeg power after I've started the car. It gets even more fun when I want to drop the hood. I can only do this with the ignition in position 2 so I have to try and beat the 30 second delay on the alarm. If I've been driving and I decide to lower the hood it means powering off the empeg, switching off the engine, dropping the hood and restarting. Again, I have to keep my fingers crossed that I'll have power to the empeg once the engine is running again. I've looked into changing the hood option so that I can raise and lower it when the engine is running (seems to be an easy thing to do but I'm waiting for when I get the tuner and do it all at once). In these instances, I can still get the negative spike problem and once I even got a full reset - dimmer settings off, volume right down, new playlist of everthing all in sequence order, etc...

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Steve - 18GB Mk II Blue

Um, you shouldn't need to do any of that. There's something funny with your wiring, or with the amount of voltage being supplied to your accessories (alarm, empeg). Maybe it's something as simple as a new battery?

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Tony Fabris

Had to get a new battery a couple of months ago. Obviously, when I get my tuner I'll have to have a thorough look at the wiring.

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Steve - 18GB Mk II Blue

My empeg behaves like this: (not enough anoying to make me comment it earlier)
1) I get into the car, tur the ignition "one click" and take down the roof
2) The Empeg starts booting
3) I start the car
4) The Empeg dies and boots again.

5) When I stop stop at traffic lights, and use electricity, for instance lowering the windows or using the fan, the empeg sometimes "cuts", but it comes right back on again without a boot-sequence. The Amp comes on again a second ar two after the emeg is up and playing again. (This happens a couple of times a day)

6) When I stop the car, I turn the ignition from "on" to "one click", the empeg survives
7) When I take down the hood (electricaly), the empeg dies about half the way through. (every time)

I'm not sure, but I think this problem got worse when I installed the diode-lead.

Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II)

I'd say;
1. Check battery fluid level (This happened to me)
2. Check alternator charging level
3. Get a new battery.


TommyE

4. Check the fuse in the power filter on the empeg harness (inside the black "dongle" is a 3A fuse). If this had blown, fitting the diode lead would make the voltage droop problem worse.

Hugo

Ah, that might explain it. It's great to hear that 1.1 will try to speed up the boot time again. I am very used to hearing music by the time I am backing out of the garage, so now I look down to see if something's wrong. :)

I'll also be installing a cap so that the Empeg won't reboot when I put down two power windows at the same time.

A capacitor isn't going to solve that problem!

If your car's system voltage is dropping so low (down below 10 volts, I think) when you run your power windows that your empeg reboots, then you have some fairly significant problems with either your charging system, or you have something wrong with the motors that drive your window lifts. The latter is unlikely, since they would have to be drawing in the neighborhood of 2,000 watts EACH to pull your battery voltage down that low, and no way could the 8 or 10-gage wire feeding those motors do that without literally going up in smoke.

So... perhaps your battery has failed to the point where it can no longer maintain proper voltage, although if that were the case you would have trouble getting the car started. Alternator/regulator problems? Something isn't right with your car, and if it hasn't done so already, it will soon leave you stranded.

tanstaafl.





"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Actually, I'm going off of a post that Tony pointed me to earlier. here . Read up on the thread to see the cap ratings recommended by Hugo.

And it's a 1999 Jeep SUV, so I shouldn't have any power problems yet. It's only really noticeable when the engine is off, ignition is in accessory, and I try to power up/down two windows at once.

-Hoagy.

Yeah, but I was talking about a high-RPM starter motor, not little window cranks...

If you want to try that method, I will say that it worked for my Mark 1. Make sure to read an earlier post that gave the proper values for the capacitors.

But Doug's got a point: By doing that, you're curing the symptom, not the problem.

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Tony Fabris

Hugo,

What would cause that memory lead fuse to blow? I was putting my 2nd cage into the Hummer this weekend and noticed odd boot behavior - so I checked the power leads to make sure I didn't have any backwards. They were fine, so I checked the fuse and it was fried.

I can't see how the docking connector would short to ground (which is the only way I can see to pull 3+ amps through the harness other than through the empeg. Is there a possibility that I have a different problem?

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Queue 351, Now Mk II #60000022 18gb, Blue

If the fuse keeps blowing, I'd triple- and quaduple-check every wiring connection and make sure I didn't have anything switched around, such as a light-sense lead plugged into the phone mute or that kind of thing (not that this particular kind of mistake would cause that fuse to blow, I'm just saying as an example). I'd check every wiring trace between the sled and the battery to make sure nothing is accidentally shorting.

Then again, it could have been something as simple as: You didn't disconnect the battery before attempting your installation. While wiring things up, if the wrong thing touches the wrong other thing when the battery is still "live", then the fuse could have blown without the slightest hint of trouble.

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Tony Fabris

The only time I've blown the 3A fuse is during installation (didn't disconnect the battery, obviously) and managed to touch the amp remote line against some car wiring. There is a separate (auto-resetting) fuse on this line, but fuses always blow in the most inconvenient order ;)

Hugo

Sometimes, not always, when I turn ACC power on momentarily, the player boots up and then stays on playing--even when the key has been removed!

I can imagine a situation where this would happen but I thought I'd addressed it in v1.03, maybe that was only in v1.1.

Basically, if you turn off accessory before the player application has started it would never notice that it had gone away.

Drop me an email if this is still happening in v1.03 and I'll make put it in the bug tracking system.

--
Mike Crowe
I may not be speaking on behalf of empeg above :-)

Been there done that Tony. It was double checking all my wiring in the first place that led me to find the blown fuse.

The only way for a fuse to blow is to pull excess current through it. In hooking things up the only way for excess current to get routed through the fuse would be to ground (earth) the other end of the wire at the connecter while(st) the connector was hooked to +12. I can't see that happening very easily - thus my question to Hugo.

=-C

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Queue 351, Now Mk II #60000022 18gb, Blue

Ah, that explains it. The amp line must have hit ground (earth) - I assume it's fed through the memory line - thus that fuse went?

I was having some problems with wiring the empeg up to the factory amp. Must have touched ground sometime in the process. Good to know there is nothing to worry about - Thanks Hugo!

=-C

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Queue 351, Now Mk II #60000022 18gb, Blue

If your confortable with a custom kernel, I just compiled one with the hack to only look for one drive on boot. This does help us one drive empeggers boot a bit quicker with 1.03. See this thread for more. And if theres enough demand, I'll crank out a non-voladj one with the 1 drive hack.