You might find this interesting. Take part if you are able!

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

As I said before, if those record companies continue to label their deliberately broken discs as being CD-DA standard compliant (e.g. by using the CD-DA logo), then they are deceiving the public, engaging in false advertising etc, and somebody should sue them.

I am promptly testing all my CD purchases (I will rip them anyway, so why not immediately), but did not encounter a broken one as yet.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

Don't forget to wear your empeg T Shirts!

Rob

Empeg T-Shirt?

WANT! Where can I get one?!?!?!?!

Greg

Going to an owners meet is usually a good way!

Rob

It's probably going to be cold there. To bad we don't have fleeces.

Question:

If you buy a second empeg, can you get a fleece for referring yourself? (Sounds painful, I know...)

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)
SN# 030103046 (10GB Blue - Emergency Spare)

Only if you regularly refer to yourself in the third person, as Zeke does.

-Zeke

just say you weren't paying much attention...

This garble that is being put on the CD's, is this something that can be detected via a program? Or is it just one more thing to cause me wonder why a new rip sounds bad? I.E. How am I going to get the idiots at the record shop to take back one of these.

Or better yet, if there is a simple program, maybe I can take my laptop to the store and "preview" the disks before buying.

Glenn (new fleece owner)

BTW, The current plain brown Rio Car boxes just don't have the panache of the former white and blue Empeg ones. Mind you the packing inside is superior.

This garble that is being put on the CD's, is this something that can be detected via a program? Or is it just one more thing to cause me wonder why a new rip sounds bad?

In theory, it should be so bad that the CD won't even play or rip at all in your CD-ROM drive.

But as I've maintained in other discussions on this subject, for this same reason, these protected CDs will refuse to play in some consumer CD players. They maintain that these discs will play in regular players, but they're lying. They know this will cause some players to eject the CD, they're gambling on "percentage of returns". They think that the amount of piracy stopped by this system will outweigh the number of people who take the disc back to the record stores.

Of course, they couldn't care less about the artist, who, if they'd bothered to ask, would say that they don't want any of their fans or potential fans to get alienated by this hassle.

Something else they're not thinking about is the fact that some CD-ROM drives will still read these copy-protected CDs. This will: a) increase sales of the "good" drives, and b) increase internet trading of the songs from the protected CDs as owners of the good drives post their copies on the 'net.

This is, of course, precisely the opposite effect of what they intended.

___________
Tony Fabris

Something else they're not thinking about is the fact that some CD-ROM drives will still read these copy-protected CDs. This will: a) increase sales of the "good" drives, and b) increase internet trading of the songs from the protected CDs as owners of the good drives post their copies on the 'net.

This is, of course, precisely the opposite effect of what they intended.


Or..... It may be exactly WHAT they want.

If they can show that they are making less money off of a well known band, because the internet trading is increased, then it's easier for them to get the legislation they want passed.

Remember, this is also known as the USCA... United States of Corporate America.

You have to realize, these guys are NOT stupid. Set in their ways, sure, pigheaded, absolutely, afraid of the changes that are being forced upon them... Without a doubt.

But, they've been real (far TOO) good at getting the legislation to back them... under the guise of protecting the artist. So, if this can be go to show that the internet piracy is increasing... Do you have the money and lawyers to prove it was their stupid "protection" that caused it, instead of all of those criminals downloading instead of rightfully paying? I don't.

(And actually, this post is just an attempt to distract the alpha team from testing the last build... Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the point isn't valid. )

they're gambling on "percentage of returns".

And this is what I am going to use against them. I don't have the money for a lawsuit or such, but I will go buy these protected CD's, try to do my normal process of getting them to the empeg, and return them when they fail to do so with no change in my process. The key thing here is to go to a store that only allows exact item exchanges when it's opened and returned. Do this several times on several CDs until the store gets pissed off enough to pass the information up the chain. I figure with the amount of shopping I do on weekends, I can return about 20 or so CDs a week to different stores without changing my habits.

The only way this will go away is if consumers voice their discontent in the most damaging way possible. Divx died due to this, lets add this to the list.

And don't think that just not buying any CDs will really be noticed by the industry. Stacks of returns will.

(So, anyone have a list of CDs I can pick up tomorrow?)

Edit: I was digging around some more, and Wired has this story about the backlash of a trial of the technology. It states they pulled the trial after 3-4% of the CDs were returned quickly. If enough of us do this, we really could get it noticed.

Edited by Drakino on 06/10/01 08:53 AM.

The only one I know about is the new N'sync album.. but I don't think you buy that kind of music.... or do you?? hehe

Tom

Reg #2845: Mark 1 #00173, Mark 2 #119

Or..... It may be exactly WHAT they want.

Now that's what I call a good conspiracy theory.

___________
Tony Fabris

Or..... It may be exactly WHAT they want.


Now that's what I call a good conspiracy theory.



That's only what they want you to think!

I'm pretty surprised that Sony and Philips aren't doing something about this. For a disk manufacturer to be allowed to put the "Compact Disc" logo on their products they must be Red book compliant. In theory, they could be forced to remove the logo under the terms of the Philips techonology license. However, I suspect that this would mean absolutely nothing to the average punter, and the manufacturer would (as like as not) simply keep on pressing disks, compliant or not. It would only allow savvy buyers to spot which disks have the protection scheme on board, and avoid buying them.

Ideally, a major lawsuit posted by Philips/Sony against a manufacturer would do this in, but given the current market conditions and Philips' financial state, it is highly unlikely this will happen - they do get royalties on every disk pressed don't forget, so they'd be killing the goose.

The only way to beat this is to return any CD that gives problems directly to the shop and ask for an exchange or money back. Only the economic activities of the punters buyng the stuff will have any effect - so vote with your feet!

As a small aside: the entire development costs of CD-A and Laserdisk (it's pre-cursor) over some 15 years were funded by the profit of one cent on each filament light bulb sold by Philips Gloelampen Fabriek NV between 1967 and 1982. Sit down with a calculator, preferably one with scientific notation and an exponential digit display format.....

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

In reply to:

---

As a small aside: the entire development costs of CD-A and Laserdisk (it's pre-cursor) over some 15 years were funded by the profit of one cent on each filament light bulb sold by Philips Gloelampen Fabriek NV between 1967 and 1982. Sit down with a calculator, preferably one with scientific notation and an exponential digit display format.....

---

You scare me.

As for the copyright stuff, I sure as hell will tell them to go &(*&^(* themselves if they ever slip one of those CD's in my shopping bag. The problem here is that consumers need a large organisation that stands up for the rights of the consumers for a change. I mean what is the world comming to. I have seen people copyright and patent the most basic things. I know of a restaurant that has a patent on a recipe, we have companies now that claim rights over the color blue (or whatever the real name is) ... Were does it end, when will the mindless and boundless greed end ? Do I think artists deserve the right to protect their work, of course but there are limits as to how far you can go and in the end one has to start wondering what artists want to achieve. Do they want to bring a message or an emotion across to their audience or is it all just another way to seperate consumers from their money?

Oh well.

Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

if you don't like a product don't buy it, tell everyone you know not to buy it, tell the company why you didn't buy it, and if enough people agree with you the company will change it or die. isn't that how free enterprise is supposed to work

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

I'm pretty surprised that Sony and Philips aren't doing something about this. For a disk manufacturer to be allowed to put the "Compact Disc" logo on their products they must be Red book compliant.

You have a good point. My personal Conspiracy Theory (tm) on this one is that the CD manufacturers must have already ironed out a deal with Sony and Philips about this particular issue.

___________
Tony Fabris

if you don't like a product don't buy it, tell everyone you know not to buy it, tell the company why you didn't buy it, and if enough people agree with you the company will change it or die. isn't that how free enterprise is supposed to work

Yeah, in lessons on Our Beautifull Free World/Coutry/Whatever (TM) for kindergarteners . In Real World (R), those with established position of financial strength dictate the rules, through propaganda machine or more sinister ways. Witness examples as diverse as Microsoft and US political parties.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

P.S. Of course, 'the little guys' can only do what you propose, and while unlikely to succeed changing anything, at least they (we) can't blame themselves for not trying...

Edited by bonzi on 07/10/01 07:40 PM.

Ideally, a major lawsuit posted by Philips/Sony against a manufacturer would do this in, but given the current market conditions and Philips' financial state, it is highly unlikely this will happen - they do get royalties on every disk pressed don't forget, so they'd be killing the goose.

Besides, Sony and Phillips have their own music publishing companies...

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

...what artists want to achieve. Do they want to bring a message or an emotion across to their audience or is it all just another way to seperate consumers from their money?

Artists usually want some of both (hopefully more of the former). Their publishers want the later (with the 'liberated' funds going, of course, mostly into publisher's, not the artist's pockets), the rationale being that an artist can get any semblance of popularity only through publisher's marketing machine.

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

For what I still feel is the definitive post on this subject, look at Rob Schofield's post from a year ago last July.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"