This was on slashdot today:

big_hairy_mama asks: "I'm the author of MP3VoiceControl, a software package based on IBM's ViaVoice. As it was designed as an interface-free car stereo (in addition to being used at home) and allows you to search for and play all your MP3's completely without the use of a keyboard or monitor, I am seriously considering starting a small business to build and sell voice controlled MP3 player units. My project is called called EmVAX, short for MP3 Voice Activated Car Stereo. This is similar in concept to EMPEG's units, except a lot cooler, and I am confident that I can produce my box at about 1/3 of the $1500 price tag of EMPEG's similar unit. My question is, how much of a market is there for this type of item? How much would you be willing to pay for 140 hours of continuous playback with an easy-to-use voice-activated and voice-searchable system? Is the impress-your-friends factor enough of a selling point so that people will shell out $600 bucks for my unit?"

Well he's convinced that he can make his price point, but I wonder if he's just adding up cost of components only or the entire design, test and mass production costs as well? I wonder what makes his product cooler?

Calvin

I can't imagine this idea really taking off. I'm sure he could sell quite a few kits though! As far as cooler goes, I can't iamgine what he'd mean.

Well he's convinced that he can make his price point, but I wonder if he's just adding up cost of components only or the entire design, test and mass production costs as well? I wonder what makes his product cooler?

As far as cooler goes, I can't imagine what he'd mean.

The way I read his message and his website, he does not understand that Empeg will soon be supporting voice-control.

Corby
SN#320,6-Gig Blue

It's a PC assembled from off-the-shelf components. It even comes in a mini tower case (not too sure how the shock protection works there). Maybe I'm biased, but I fail to see any comparison with the empeg. There are other PC-in-the-trunk solutions out there which seem to be a little better thought through than this - Hugo's original MP3Mobile plans for example!

He'll certainly need to raise a chunk of cash to produce these things in any kind of volume, though - not to mention FCC and CE EMC approvals and so forth.

Rob

To be honest, I don't think he understands that the empeg is a single box in dash unit...

How else could you compare a Minitower computer system in the boot to an empeg?
(Oh, and the predictable mp3 cdr advocates are out in force... =)

Jazz
(List 112, S/N 00030, 4 gig blue)

So far I have posted 3 things under that story. The first I hope many people will read.

This person keeps forgetting some of the major differences between his player and the empeg. Size. My empeg Mark 1 fits in the dash. My empeg can
be removed from the car at any time easially for security. My empeg can be used in the house easially. A PC box somewhere in the car has none of these advantages.

Also, the sound quality of the empeg is great. The people who installed mine said it was the best sounding head unit they have ever installed. Also, the
empeg is very powerful, and will play many future formats with no problem. MP3 and visuals uses around 20-30% of the CPU. The rest of that time on
my unit is used to crack d.net RC5 keys. GPS and CDPD support is underway, and the people working on GPS plan on using the IR to beam maps to the Palm.

The empeg is a well developed product. The prices will change with the Mark II. The Mark II ships June 9th with voice control, ethernet, and other new
features. I'll probably see if I can get an Airport to work with the empeg while in the driveway once I recieve my Mark II. Also, I feel the price I paid for
my empeg is well worth it. I didn't buy a simple MP3 player. I bought an in dash computer that runs Linux, and I can do whatever I want with, compaired
to the similiarly priced AutoPC running WinCE.

My empeg site is:http://24.236.3.131/empeg/

The /. culture wants everything, and they don't want to pay for it. There are guys on there that understand our business so much better than we do that I'm amazed they can fit their heads through their office doors.

We're in the happy position that practically everyone that understands the empeg loves it. Those that understand electronics manufacture and software development recognise that the price is realistic - maybe even quite good - especially for something that dares to be made outside of America or Taiwan.

In my experience of attempting to market this product I have found that all we need to do is get it seen. Once you've actually seen an empeg, or read a well observed review, the product sells itself.

We do appreciate the support of our clients in debates like this one - thanks guys :)

Rob

Rob said: The /. culture...

Isn't the above an oxymoron?
---------------------------
Defn: culture, n., 1. artistic and intellectual pursuits and products 2. a quality of enlightenment or refinement arising from an acquaintance with and concern for what is regarded as excellent in the arts, letters, manners, etc. 3. development or improvement of the mind by education or training (and the list goes on some more...)

Then again, maybe it's not an oxymoron:
7. a. the cultivation of microorganisms, as bacteria, or of tissues, for scientific study, medicinal use, etc b. the the product or growth resulting from such cultivation

-- Bleys

"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

> The /. culture wants everything, and they don't want to pay for it.
> There are guys on there that understand our business so much better
> than we do that I'm amazed they can fit their heads through their
> office doors.

Ha! That reminds me of a C/Net poster who railed against the Personal Jukebox 100 (you know, that portable unit with the hard drive). He said the following:

"Why not use an old Pentium 60?"
I put a Pentium 90 running pcanywhere behind my entertainment center. i amusing the LINE OUT on teh soundcard to run to the AUX input of my receiver. I then use pcAnwyhere to remotely control the WinAmp screen from my den. Since my house is wired via ethernet, I use my server to dole out the music. the whole solution cost me about 200 dollars.

Lemmesee... BECAUSE IT'S PORTABLE, perhaps? :-)

In response, another posted this, tongue firmly planted in cheek:

"Why Why Why??"
For $600 you can put together a 27 gig hard drive 64 mb ram machine running NT 4 with a TV-out card that hooks up to your big screen tv via the SVHS port

Rob wrote:

In my experience of attempting to market this product I have found that all we need to do is get it seen. Once you've actually seen an empeg, or read a well observed review, the product sells itself.

I've sold people on empeg just by telling them about it. I had one guy in my car two weeks ago (I don't own an empeg) and he was pining for something larger than 74 minutes of audio in one go. So I said "well, there's this thing called an empeg car player..." and conversation went from there. At one point he said "Ah, but wouldn't it be cool if it had voice recognition!" and I said "well, in the next model..."

BIG big smile on my face.

BTW, for rob's comment "office doors", I would substitute "dorm doors" or "bedrooms".

Slashdot's an interesting place to get some versions of the truth.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

Ughh.. I had to check out this EmVAX. This person can not possible market such a contraption. The empeg car compares with companys like Pioneer and Alpine as far as car stereos are concerned (in my opinion). This EmVAX looks like it has no indash control aside from the voice operation. So what the hell do you do when the car player doesn't like your voice or other voice control anomolies?

What I like about empeg is the quality control. I can't wait to get a Mark II. I can't see how the EmVAX could even compare quality-wise to the empeg. With no shock protection, and a big bulky minitower case (probably all just quickly slapped together), I wouldn't recommend on to my frieds. Hell, that's all you need is the cards or processor coming loose from bumps in the road.

It is obvious what you are paying for when you get the empeg car. I don't think it is possible to achieve the same results for less. At the same time, I hope the empeg guys can find ways to keep the empeg competitive cuz I'll bet the other car audio companies are gonna jump in soon and try to squash out empeg :(

Still, I think if Alpine or Pioneer created an in-car mp3 player, it'll be proprietary anyway (looks like the Aiwa is)... can't imagine it being better or more fun than having Linux in my car!

There's my rant!

(btw, I don't have an empeg yet, but I'm anxiously awaiting the Mark II. My $1500 US dollars is as good as spent as soon as the unit is available :) )

I hope the empeg guys can find ways to keep the empeg competitive...

You can bet on it. They've already got a headstart of at least a year on everyone else.

Still, I think if Alpine or Pioneer created an in-car mp3 player, it'll be proprietary anyway (looks like the Aiwa is)...

Everything from the big companies I've seen advertised for this year are all CDR-based or memory-card based. The CDR versions are definitely not proprietary, I don't know if the memory-card ones are. Either way, the storage per card/disc is limited. I love the Empeg because they've taken the idea to its logical extreme already: keeping your entire CD collection in the unit, on an internal hard disk. Not many other products (and none of the big-name products) have even attempted this.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

>>Still, I think if Alpine or Pioneer created an in-car mp3 player,
>>it'll be proprietary anyway (looks like the Aiwa is)...

>Everything from the big companies I've seen advertised for this year
>are all CDR-based or memory-card based. The CDR versions are definitely
>not proprietary

Actually, what I meant by proprietary was the interface and stuff. Like for instance, Alpine's AiBus thingy. A nice thing about empeg is that is uses Linux, a widely known and used OS that is very open. If Alpine made a similar product, they'd probably keep the whole thing closed and create their own proprietary O/S.

I guess the reason why I mentioned it was, I originally wanted to build a machine that played mpgs and toss it in the trunk (as others do). But I was hoping to create an interface that could connect to an existing head unit. The specs to Alpine's head units (eg AiBus) is not available to the public (at least, not that I could find)... so I gave up.

Although it may not have been one of the design goals, empeg give people the ability to make their empeg players more powerful than what you get out of the box.

No, it was definitely in our design goals to let people do stuff with the empeg; this is one reason why we put every interface on it, even though we didn't use them all (irda, for example), and used a CPU almost 3x as powerful as was actually required to play music :)

Hugo

> No, it was definitely in our design goals to let people do stuff
> with the empeg; this is one reason why we put every interface on it,
> even though we didn't use them all (irda, for example), and used a CPU
> almost 3x as powerful as was actually required to play music :)

See, another reason why the empeg kicks the $h*t out of the competition hehe.

Yea. It's called capacity planning for the customer's needs -- as opposed to planned obsolesence (which is what the big names tend to demonstrate).

Empeg ... it really whips the penguin's ass.

-- Bleys

"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca