<RANT>
Okay, so did anyone watch Frasier last night? I just started watching it on the TiVo and Bill Gates (the real Bill Gates) shows up in person as a ``guest'' on Frasier's talk show and he starts taking calls that are like tech support, except they're really formulated to ``show off'' how ``good'' Windows XP is. The entire first act is like a freaking ad for XP -- it's way beyond simple product placement. And Bill's palling around with the office doofus Trekkie nerd, trying to make him look like this loveable milquetoast. I can't tell you how much this pisses me off. I mean, are so many people skipping over the commercials with the TiVo now that they need to actually put them in the program itself? And do we really need the social propaganda on sitcoms? Is it any surprise that this shows up on an (MS)NBC program?
</RANT>

<ANCILLARY RANT>
And speaking of software product placements, has anyone else noticed all the odd places that Computer Associates products are popping up on NBC? Like in the boss's window on Just Shoot Me? Or beside the sign-in desk computer monitors on ER? And not just one at a time -- like a whole stack of different ones. These are products that cost thousands of dollars, wouldn't be anywhere other than an IT guy's office, and have absolutely no relevance to wherever they're placed.
</ANCILLARY RANT>

Sorry.

I did not watch the episode, precisely because I was afraid it would turn into a Microsoft ad. Sorry to hear that's exactly what happened.

As far as product placement goes, it's something we're just going to have to live with. The companies that make these movies/shows are in it to make a profit. If they can figure out a way to make more money off of the same show, they're going to do it. It only becomes a problem when people stop watching because the ads are too crass and obvious.

I've seen some pretty bad examples of overly-obvious product placement recently. Some episodes of The Sopranos were particularly bad in that respect. The episodes with the Billy Bass were awful, the way they were waving that annoying fish around.

On the other hand, the FedEx product placement in "Castaway" was perfectly natural and worked for the story. Sure, they could have just as easily done it as a fake company, but they made it FedEx and it made the movie seem more real.

I just loved the Post Haste despatch service in Romeo & Juliet; very well done.

Hugo
(now someone's going to tell me that it's a real service that existed at the time of the film... I've seen plenty *since* then, though. My favourite courier was one I saw in germany, with "GOD" in huge letters on their vans. Guaranteed Overnight Delivery :) )

"GOD" has a presence in the US as well, based in Newark, New Jersey. I've seen their trucks from time to time and I think it's rather ridiculous that they chose the name and the acronym they have... If God lives in New Jersey, then I have very little hope for mankind.

Overheard during the company's formation:
Employee: "How about Delivery Overnight Guaranteed?"
Pointy-hair: "Hmm.. DOG. I don't think that a dog is the first image people should conjure up when they think of our service."
"Employee: "Okay, how about Guaranteed Overnight Delivery?"
Pointy-hair: "GOD. I like it! WE ARE GOD!"

wfaulk: Is it any surprise that this shows up on a (MS)NBC program?

All of the affiliated news outlets in Seattle (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) are pretty gentle in their coverage of Microsoft, but it is particularly interesting to watch the choice of words of the NBC affiliate during events like this year's ("several hours"!) prolonged outage of microsoft.com. Bob help me, I still watch NBC -- Huntley/Brinkley still exert their grip on me.

This progressive interlocking of the MS-NBCs, AOL Time Warner, Sony, et al, really does make me nervous. The cross-placement and promotion in the AOL-CNN sphere is particularly blatent. When I bought a video camera this year I deliberately decided to forsake Sony products, but, past a certain point, I feel like there won't be a way to use any of this stuff without feeding the MS-AOL-Sony beasts. It's enough to make one join an anti-WTO protest or something! (As Jim sits here and rips Youssou N'Dour's JOKO on Sony Columbia!)

(Back in the late 70s, several friends made car-purchasing decisions based on strict political criteria, and they wound up driving Fiats. I expect they are probably pedalling to work now. Sigh).

My previous all-time favorite, Boston's: Death Wish Piano Movers

My new all-time favorite (seen in big, arched gold leaf on the door of a shiny Mack dump truck in Piscataway, New Jersey):

* * PISS and MOAN * *
* * * TRUCKING * * *

There was Billy Bass usage on the NBC show "ED" a little while back as well. I would hardly call that product placement. The same applies to its use in the Sopranos. If anything, the product was portrayed in a negative light both times.

When a product is an integral part of the script, I don't generally find it to be abusive of the passive trust people put in entertainment. Sticking non-related products where they don't belong, just as eye-candy is a different matter.

I don't think anyone on here would be complaining if it were Linus Torvalds on Frasier, would they?

Next thing you know people will be saying the stolen load of Armani suits in the Sopranos was also shameless product placement.

Oh and one key differentiating line between the Sopranos and the movie Castaway? The Sopranos, as entertainment is worth the celluloid it's filmed on. Though I will admit, Castaway makes an excellent special-effects demo reel.

Now don't get me started about how many Apple laptops and DFPs inappropriately appear in countless small and big screen productions...

If anything, the product was portrayed in a negative light both times.

How the product is portrayed is irrelevant. Good or bad, it's exposure and it's advertising. The Billy Bass people paid them to put it on the screen.

My problem wasn't with the fact that they used in in the episodes. Product placement is there all the time in just about every show we watch, I accept it. My problem was that they were blatantly obvious about it. The way they held it up to the camera, and the director carefully framed it like an advert shot, and they sat there and stared at it while it did its spiel. Very blatant and bad. Nearly as blatant as the product placement gags in the Wayne's World movie (which were deliberately making fun of product placement).

I did like the bit about Tony flashing back to the red snapper talking to him from the street vendor's display. That made the whole thing work. Barely.

In reply to:

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When a product is an integral part of the script, I don't generally find it to be abusive of the passive trust people put in entertainment.

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The thing is that the episode of Frasier ran about 5 minutes long (it was the 200th episode), and I'm sure that they'll cut out the entirety of it for syndication. There was absolutely no reference to it in the rest of the program, and any incidental things mentioned were repeated later on. It was solely an ad.

In reply to:

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I don't think anyone on here would be complaining if it were Linus Torvalds on Frasier, would they?

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No, but there neither is there a mass active dislike of Linus or Linux that they're obviously trying to dispel nor does Linus have a brand new product out for sale for him to promote.

In reply to:

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The Sopranos, as entertainment is worth the celluloid it's filmed on.

---

Someone's going to have to explain to me this obsession with The Sopranos. I simply don't get it. The writing's fine, as is the acting, but folks act like it's the best thing to come along since sliced bread. I've seen nothing exciting about it. It's a soap opera. Nothing more or less than anything that's been shown on TV since the 40s, except they get to say ``[censored]'' and there are random gratuitous tittie scenes. (And, yes, I have watched significant portions of it, as a friend of mine keeps trying to show me how good it is.)

Hmmm. Seems you can't say the f-word here.

Someone's going to have to explain to me this obsession with The Sopranos.

I first saw it in a hotel room because I didn't get HBO at home at the time. The thing that "got" me about it was how each aspect of it (writing, production, acting, directing) was of the absolutely highest quality. It was more well-done than anything else I'd seen on television up to that point.

On top of that, it's about a group of people who you're supposed to hate. These are the bad guys. But it manages to twist your sensibilities and toy with you so skillfully that you actually care for the characters. There's just something intriguing about a show which so sucessfully centers around anti-heroes.

And yes, it certainly helps that they manage to thread together intricate soap-opera-style plot lines that keep you hanging on for the next episode...

Of course, all of that went out the window when I saw the Billy Bass episode.

Okay, I realize that I'm careening wildly off-topic, but....

Soap operas have always been, at least partially, centered around the bad guys. And in The Sopranos, they cheat. The ``good'' bad guys seem to just be doing it because it's their job, and it's often glossed over. Tony's therapy sessions even seem to be largely about him trying to reconcile his ``good'' and ``bad'' sides. The ``bad'' bad guys are often over-the-top and maniacal. It's like watching wrestling these days. Of course, my friend is also into that, as well. <sigh>

And your argument about being well constructed doesn't sit well with me, either. I can have a piece of furniture that's made of the highest quality woods, be lovingly handcrafted, display the most attractive marquetry, and last hundreds of years, but if it doesn't hold my clothes, it's useless. (I know -- it's a pretty forced metaphor.)

I don't know. I realize I'm arguing something that's totally subjective here, but usually I can see what other people admire in something, even if I don't agree with it. But I just don't get that feeling here.

I seem to be in rant mode lately. Sorry. Bummed about the lack of job prospects, I suppose. Somebody wanna give me one? I make a good first impression, don't I?

All of your points are perfectly valid. As you said, it's a totally subective thing. Some people go nuts for it, others, it's not their cup of tea. I can respect that.

Can't offer you a job, though. We're probably going to do layoffs at my place, too.

Hmmm I was flipping channels and I happened upon NBC tonight... It was some sitcom I don't watch, Will and Grace, I think. And they're doing the same thing except this time it's with the X-Box. I saw like 3 seconds of it and changed the channel so I don't know how blatantly they were pushing it, but they definitely mentioned it by name and zoomed in on it pretty close. Unbelievable. If this is what it's going to, then I would much rather a "pay to play" system to watch TV than be subjected to this crap.

Not like I watch any of these sitcoms anyway. But if it starts making its way into the shows I watch...

but they definitely mentioned it by name and zoomed in on it pretty close.

That's the kind of thing I hate.

It's fine to have the characters playing a video game on the show and someone say, "oh, <insert name of cookie-cutter sitcom character here> just got his new Xbox for christmas, so that's why <insert cookie-cutter sitcom situation here>." To me, that's a perfectly valid use of product placement.

My problem is when the pimping is blatantly obvious like you described, and like what I saw on The Sopranos. That rips away my suspension of disbelief and ruins the experience of the show for me.

Yeah. At least during real commercials you're expecting to be sold something (and you can click away to another channel.) This is precisely what makes the product placement advertising more valuable to the advertisers, and precisely what makes it complete horseshit to the intelligent viewer. I sincerely hope this doesn't turn into a trend, I don't remember it being this blatant (except in Wayne's World when it was just plain funny.)

"Little.. yellow.. different... better."

The Sopranos, like any other "piece" of art, you will either get or will not get. Or perhaps care or not care. But one of the big reasons is also timing. Looking at the other offerings on the tube it is easy to see how a production of that calibre comes to the top.

Now if you want to look at what not to do with a TV show, just take a look at a current episode of the X Files. No chemistry, bad scripting, weak and convoluted plot lines, etc... Some people were just to obsessed to see that even its satirical spin-ff, Lone Gunmen, was a far better production during its run (Fox has a knack for killing shows).

Compare that to a couple of great current TV shows: Ed (on NBC) and That's Life on CBS. I guess I'm in a thing for "simple" programming recently. The touch of humor doesn't hurt either.

Back to products, how many times have they mentioned "Playstation" in the Sopranos?

And Tony, do you know for a fact the Billy Bass thing was a paid placement in the above? I didn't care much about it, because I'd never spend a dime on such a rediculous and completely tacky product. I suppose some people might feel compelled to buy one just for the Sopranos-sentimentality. Oh well, hope those people are few and far between. Just as few and far between as the dimwits complaining about the show stereotyping Italians.

If you want to speak about stereotyping and product placement, speak to George Lucas. Anyone watching and listening to Episode 1 will get an eye and earful - JarJar is the least of your worries. "The Force" .... "Mountain Dew". See? See? :) Ok, stretching it here.

Maybe we should hook Tony Soprano up with a truck load of empegs for next season...

Bruno

typos and other glaring mistakes left in for people actually paying attention to my post. :)

Whenever I hear discussions like this, I can't help but think of Wayne and Garth being coerced by Rob Lowe (aka Benjamin)

Back to products, how many times have they mentioned "Playstation" in the Sopranos?

Yeah, good point. That's an example of properly-done placement. AJ playing a video game is a natural part of many episodes.

And Tony, do you know for a fact the Billy Bass thing was a paid placement in the above?

How could it NOT be?

Maybe we should hook Tony Soprano up with a truck load of empegs for next season...

Now that would have been cool. I know that the SonicBlue people have done product placement work before... in fact, I seem to recall that one of the portable players gets a nod in Rollerball coming out this February. (Incidentally, the new trailer for that one at apple.com looks awesome, check it out.)

I know that the SonicBlue people have done product placement work before...

And Creative Labs got product placement on TV Go Home. (NB not for the easily offended.)

Peter