Time and I are preparing to install a Mark2 into my 2000 Saturn LW2 (wagon) this weekend.

Our current plan is to purchase a new head unit (CD/AM/FM) which has AUX-in, and replace the factory stereo with it. Then install the empeg in the empty [amost-DIN sized) slot below it with a little careful cutting.

I am not particularly concerned about the specs on the new head unit, other than cheapish, i.e. under $200. Any recommendations?

Additionally, I read a post about Saturn's suffering from a 'negative spike' issue, and requiring a diode; Any details?. I assume it's attached inline with the power. Any special requirements for the diode?

Any other tips for this install would be appreciated.

Thanks,
rjf&

If the unit is a Mark 2a (Rio Car) as opposed to a genuine Mark 2, then the negative spike problem isn't an issue. As I recall, the 2a units are the ones with the diode fix built-in. Empeg guys, correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, even if I'm right, give me a heads-up so I can make sure the FAQ is dead-accurate on the issue.

And if anyone can supply a drawing/description of how the diode works into the scheme of things, I could add that to the FAQ as well so people could add their own diodes without bugging support.

If anyone needs a diode contact me. I bought 100 when I only needed one (shipping for 1 was the same a shipping for a bunch). I won't charge anything, just send me an envelope and and stamp.

Correct, the mk2a has the diode built in.

Hugo

Looks like I am going to pick up a Jansen CD4010K tomorrow and try to get the install finished. If it works out, I will post pictures.

rjf&

Here's one BIG potential tip....

Are you planning on using the new head unit for amplification, or do youhave outboard amps? If you've got external amps, and if you do go with a cheapy head unit, connect it to the empeg's AUX, not the other way around - you may very well prefer empeg's pre-amp controls over those of the cheap head.

If you need the other head for amplification, then don't go too cheap. Sure, one power amp is exactly the same as any other (SQ wise), given the exact same setup parameters, but the pre-amp sections (including any dsp) and other adjusting controls aren't.

Bruno

What are the symptoms of the negative spike problem? Time finished the install last night (it's beautiful, minimal cutting), and the only issue I am having is that after having the key turned off, the empeg often won't come back on when I start the car. I have to pull it out and plug it back in to get it going again.

rjf&

Symptoms are: you turn the car off, and the empeg doesn't go into standby but turns off completely (no flashing LED), often accompanied by a pop from the speakers.

Very strange, your startup problem; does the crimping on the sled look ok?

Hugo

As stated by others here, the RioCar (mark 2a) shouldn't suffer the negative spike problem that the Saturn cars have (at least my 2000 SL2 did).

The one issue that you may run into is the keyless remote will not work when the empeg is either powered on or in standby. I need to dig up information on where the antenna is, to then possibly move it away from the empeg. A Saturn/empeg owner in Denver does not have this problem, but he has a 2000 L series sedan that has a very different dash.

So far, there are no issues with the keyless remote, or power windows/locks, etc, and the airbag didn't deploy ;-)

The symptom is that 4 out of 5 times, when turning the key on, I the empeg either doesn't turn on, or it acts like it just got powered up (i.e. was not in standby mode).

Is the diode just a standard power diode, or some kind of zener? Is it something I can pick up at radio shack? What are the specs?

And, where does it go?

Thanks guys. Pictures and notes of the install to follow shortly.

rjf&

Okay, here are some install pics:

http://www.zero-ping.com:8080/empeg/

Here are the install notes.

1) Time did an awesome job! I am in awe.

2) Time only had to cut a tiny bit of the console at the bottom, and he did it cleanly, besides the empeg handle hangs over it even if he hadn't done a good job.

3) A gremilin sneaked in after the inital wiring, when the new head unit worked properly, but then didn't, and we had to move a wire in the harness. Frustrating, but works now.

4) No airbags were deployed during this installation.

5) I will probably put a little black foam along the very thin edges, where you can just barely see past (the camera pics above really exaggerate it due to the flash).

6) More often than not, upon starting the car, the unit behaves as if it has just seen power for the first time in it's life. This may be the shutdown timeout (120 seconds) I had. I moved it up to 30 minutes to experiment. Occasionally the unit won't come on at all, and must be pulled out and put back in. I am thinking this is the negative spike issue.

7) I am seriously concerned about hijack reporting a temperature of 58C/136F after driving for about an hour. The install has the top of the empeg right up against the bottom of the head unit, serverly restricting airflow into the empeg. When I pulled the unit, the case felt pretty warm, but not 136F. There is enough room above the head unit to mount a 4" fan to blow air down over the units, I will probably do that and tie the fan to ignition.

8) Dreams do come true.

Thanks to the empeg folks, and Time for the installation.

rjf&

The thing with the edges being visible through the gap... The way I corrected that was by taking a piece of black textured sheet plastic (actually the cover of a black plastic three-ring binder) and carefully cutting it to the desired shape. A blurry photo can be found here for my mark1 installation, I did the same thing for my mark2 installation.

Don't know what's going on with the power-on troubles. If it's not the negative spike issue, then it's something wrong with the player or the wiring. It's not supposed to do that.

You look like you'd really benefit from one of Rob's wooden fascias.

The install in my Integra is pretty much the same configuration you have. Empeg under CD head unit (a Clarion in my case). When mlord gets back from vacation I'll try out hijack and see what kinds of temperatures I'm getting. I had the empeg playing for about 12 hours yesterday sitting on top of a CD jewel case on top of my flatbed scanner (which is off) and it never got very hot. Only warm to the touch at most. And it was pretty warm in the room to begin with.

I'll consider a small fan inside the unit, but I don't know how well it will work since most of the airways will be blocked - the side ones are blocked by the dock and the top by the other head unit (minus a tiny bit of space of course).

I only just installed the empeg dock today. If I had to do it again (I'm not going to undo the great job my brother and I already did), I would add a collar to the dock to bring it out about 1/4". I didn't think about this while installing it and now I can't close the handle all the way when the empeg is full inserted. Doh. Well, that's only partially true. I can close it all the way if I nudge the entire unit up a bit. But then there's no way to open the handle because it's jammed so tight and close to the trim under the unit. I'm cool with it this way though. Still looks fine. Pics will be up after I put the rest of my console back.

Bruno

A standard diode is just fine; it shouldn't be passing any significant current (as long as your main fuse in the yellow wire doesn't blow!)

The negative transients can be big; to be safe, get a 1A, 200V diode (1N5403? Can't remember the one we use in the diode leads offhand).

You install it in the orange wire (ignition sense), with the stripe towards the empeg. Rio-car's already have this - all units had transient protection, the mk2 was just missing reverse voltage protection on the ignition sense.

Hugo

Thanks for that information, Hugo. So would you say that this picture is an accurate diagram for the FAQ?:

So far, there are no issues with the keyless remote, or power windows/locks, etc, and the airbag didn't deploy ;-)

I think it's just a problem in the 2000 and up S series Saturns, due to the placement of the keyless remote antenna. One day I'll look into this furthur, it just hasn't been a priority.

I used the diagram and part parameters you listed in your post tonight, and my negative spike problem seems to have gone away. I can repeatedly turn on and off the car, and the empeg behaves.

The only remaining oddity, is that after turning off the car, and pulling the key from the ignition, I can still turn on the empeg, which is unexpected. It's in standby mode like it should be (shutdown timeout is set to 300 seconds), but I guess I was surprised that I could turn it on during that period. I assume this is normal?

rjf&

It's normal (and intentional) that you can start the empeg from standby using the front panel or remote. This allows you to remove your keys and have music playing (but I trust my passengers much more than that, obviously. No, really.)

The correct diode is a 1N4003, btw. I was getting confused with some SMT diode.

Hugo

So, I think I can call my 2000 Saturn LW2 install complete, with the addition of the negative spike protection last night.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the tips and information you all provided. It's much appreciated!

Cheers,
rjf&

BTW, I am in the middle of helping the JEmplode guys add functionality, so I'll be around asking come technical questions, I'm sure...

Just wanted to drop an update on my Saturn Install.

I had purchased a Jensen CD4010K as the replacement head unit for the install.

I have had the unit for about 4 months now -- I hate it. It is a piece of garbage. I will try and refrain from trashing Jensen as a company, since maybe I got a lemon, but this head unit is complete crap. It has so many little flaws it's hard to believe it made it out of the factory. It is easy to get it into a state such that you have to remove power from it to reset it. It gets EXTREMELY hot after being on for about 2 hours.

So, I finally ditched it and went with a Pioneer DEH-P4400, which actually cost the same but is much better in many ways. I have only had it in for a little while, so I can't say for sure how the quality is, or if it gets as hot, but based on friends recommendations, I think it will be a much better choice.

Unfortunately, it's silver (instead of black), so it doesn't look quite as good, but I can live with that.

Some pictures to follow soon.

rjf&