Hi there ...
Finally i got my AUDI convertible, there is a crappy GAMMA Radia/Tape pre-installed, with 4 110 mm speakers and 1 15 cm SubWoofer, all Nokia brand ..
This System is half-active, the 2 Front Speakers are driven by The Head Unit, and the other 3 Speakers have small amps attached ...
Did anyone do an empeg install in such a weird System before ??
If yes -> hint appreciated ...
By now i tend to use a small amp for the front 2 speakers, use the attached amps of the 2 small speakers in the back and replace the crappy sub by a good sub with another good amp ...

Nils

Nils --

I hesitate to tell someone with over 50 well-reasoned posts on the BBS how to set up his stereo, but a quick sampling shows that most (if not all) of your writings tend towards the technical aspects of the empeg as compared to audiophile interests. In that regard, we are exact opposites, so maybe what I say will be useful.

Unless there are things I don't know about your Audi's sound system (maybe the speakers are made out of a special unobtainium alloy with super conducting voice coils or something) I am astonished by the paucity of the sound system in your very expensive car. I really don't see how you are going to get good sound quality from four inch speakers and a six inch "subwoofer". The frequency response ranges you will achieve with this setup are very limited. Those 4" (110 mm) speakers, unless they are co-axials with built-in tweeters aren't going to give you much high treble, and they won't give you much mid-bass either. The single 6" speaker (15cm) will give you nice response in the mid-bass range, but one speaker in the back of the car to handle all your mid-bass isn't going to be satisfactory. As for bass and sub-bass, you will have nothing below about 80 Hz. A six inch speaker just is NOT a subwoofer!

There -- now that I've finished trashing your car (which is certainly a much nicer car than my 14 year old station wagon!) look at this as an opportunity to fix what Audi should have done right in the first place. I am assuming that since you are spending probably $1500 on an empeg (you are going to go at least 10GB aren't you?) you won't mind spending another few hundred on good speakers, properly sized for optimum performance.

You need tweeters. I have had exceptional success with the MB Quart RKB-100 4" co-axial speakers. Replace your two front speakers with those (about $200--$250 USD) and you won't believe the differrence you hear. Get rid of the two 4" speakers in the back, replace them with a pair of 6" speakers (in the doors if feasible) and replace the 6 inch "subwoofer" with a 10 inch, or if you are a real bass head, a 12 inch but I don't recommend that because you will lose some of the crispness, or punch in your bass and sub bass. Explore the possibility of a free-air subwoofer so you don't have to fill your whole trunk with a huge speaker box.

You won't need a lot of power to drive this setup. I have found that a 100 watt amp for all the small speakers, plus a separate 50 watt amp for the 10" is plenty, and gives you lots of configuration and tuning options.

I have no idea where you will put all this stuff, but my experience is that you want to take your time making the decisions -- be creative, measure to see where things might fit, talk to experienced installers like Dominic at Cambridge Car Audio who has solutions to problems you didn't even know existed and has seen hundreds of very clever installations.

Don't rush into it and you can have a really outstanding sound system in a very desirable car. (** he says turning green with envy**)

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Hi there, thx for your reply, here are some comments & new points :)



>a 12 inch but I don't recommend that because you will lose some of the crispness

That is what i always feared when i created my current boom boom box ( with those 2 12" Phyle - Harman Kadon ), but after testing several configs with my FRIENDLY supplier, i found out, that those subs are as crispy as one hard 10", just MORE pressure :)
I really hate this soft boom boom sound coming out of those paper membrane 20+ inch subs ...


>your writings tend towards the technical aspects of the empeg as compared to audiophile interests

Thats funny, because i AM originally seeing myself as a computer freak, trying to get in the world of sound :)

No, but as i am a programmer i do not write too many stuff in here concerning this as i learned to trust the empeg people.
I think they are very skilled and they sort things out in the correct priority, maybe not always my wishes, but reasonable wishes, but be sure if i see something weird & annoying i will also start wrinting more comments in that direction, right now my main concerns are the GUI and my personal sound setup ...

My basic definition of good car sound is:
-1- dont care too much about noise, because the engine/wind is always there ...
-2- I NEED brilliant high freqs
-3- I NEED crispy kicking basses
-4- medium freqs will be okay at any time, because 95% of all speakers are able to do a clean 1 kHz Sinus, its the rest that is difficult in terms of energy & placing of the speakers ...

Now some comments to other points:

-1- The car was'nt too expensive, as those cars are cheaper here in Germany especially near Ingolstadt, where i travelled to buy it, and i got a 2 year old, not a NEW, for me it is shiny and new of course, as my last car was 11 years old when i bought it :) :)
( I LUV this car and i can recommend it to everyone, its a brilliant combination of beeing elegant AND sportive AND a convertible, wich still is usable as a family car because of its 4 seats and reasonable big trunk )

-2- YOU ARE RIGHT, i was amazed how bad the audio was compared to the rest of the car, but i saw the same or even worse in the other convertibles ... maybe those car manufacturers aim at older buyers ... ( who do not hear anything at all anymore :)

-3- My plan of FIRST leaving the original stuff in there was not my final target, it was the beginning, my plan is/was:
(1) Build in the empeg SOMEHOW and drive the built-in speakers with it

(2) Replace the crappy Nokia Sub with a free air 12"-15" Sub (30-35 cm) which will be located in the trunk, blowing in the cabin through the ski-bag.

If it sounds good enough then i will make a break :), otherwise i will:

(3) Replace the 4 built-in Speakers with 4" (11 cm ) MB-Quart ( nice to see that we prefer the same brand :)

Final and last options would be:

-Replacing the rear speakers with larger ones ( 6"-8" ) but i have to check, if there is enough room, and i have to think about not damaging/changing the original design too much ...

-Putting my current boom-boom Box from the VW Golf ( holding 2 Phyle 30cm Subs ) on the back seats, fixing the needed amp to the sub case, so that i get a sort of "easy to get rid of" active System ..., because 95% of all time i will be driving the car alone or with my girl friend ...


By now i tried to test a "floating" setup with temporary connections with ->
empeg, a small amp to drive the 2 front speakers, and giving line output to the rear active 3 speaker system ...
It turned out that the rear system expects something else than line level.
Whatever level i set, the sound is quit and distorted or loud and distorted, i have no idea what could be wrong ( maybe totally wrong impedance ?! )

Nils

P.S. thx for your opinion, i appreciate it ...

Over here in the UK, there's an adaptor available to interface a 2v pre-out head unit to the original Audi/Nokia/Gamma system. It actually needs a decent 2v+ pre-out signal to work properly, so should be ideal for the Empeg. If you can't track one down in your part of the world, we could probably ship one out to you for a reasonable enough price.

With the rest of the system, I'd generally agree with all that tanstaafl's said. Assuming you've only got fullrange drivers at the moment, then either a high-grade coaxial, or component kit in the original positions in the front of the car ought to brighten up the top end significantly. If you're looking for decent sound quality, as opposed to SPL, then running the fronts off a reasonably large high quality amp is probably a good idea - if so, then high pass filtering these at a fairly low fequency (probably 60-80hz) just to stop them distorting at high volume levels may or may not be necessary.

I think personally, if it was my own car, I'd be inclined to try and uprate the rear speakers to 6" as tanstaafl suggests, but run them bandpassed just to give mid-bass. You might be able to do this using the existing amps (if you can get an active crossover, or inline phono passive crossver into the signal line), as these are reasonably powerful, although a lot of them tend to be phsically attached to the speakers themselves - in which case, a reasonable budget amp is probably an easier option, and shouldn't degrade the overall sound quality, as it'll only be running a relatively narrow frequency band.

With the sub end of the system, I'd definitely be inclined to go for a 10" sub (or better still, a pair, if you're prepared to lose the necessary space, and can actually fit two in). The sub's really going to have to work for a living, as there's not much air passage into the car - that being the case, it's probably one of the rare occasions when I'd recommend a properly designed ported enclosure. Sealed boxes almost always sound better, but a ported box should give you a precious few more dB.

Dominic

Cambridge Car Audio
http://www.cambscaraudio.co.uk