Okay we know the Mk2a is gone and it is very unlikely to come back.

but we know that there is other things afoot in the futre on the OEM front and there is a good chance that it will share alot of the software.

So i shall ask a bit of a strange question

What was better the hardware player or the software.?

I know the two are pretty much linked but i would be intrested to know what people think.

The hardware. Many stereos can play MP3s but no other car stereo gives you ethernet, IrDA, or a Bash prompt. The software is still brilliant though.

Speaking of Irda has anyone gotten a palm to work with the empeg in order to browse playlists, search etc..? I've been looking around for this on the boards but haven't read any posts in depth yet. Would be cool to hand the palm to a passenger let them pick what they want played then "beam" it to the empeg to be played. Just an idea.

yes, but for serial not irda

http://www.psibits.com/PalmEmpeg/

Yea, I've know about that but on my pda serial isn't realy an option atm. Once of those cell phone/pda combos and no accersories for it yet. I still don't think I would use the serial connection even if I did have that as an option. Anyways I can continue to dream.

What was better the hardware player or the software.?

Clearly it was the software.

Anyone can slap a hard disk into a docking sled. Advanced music management is what makes the player so useful to me.

I wouldn't consider purchasing a Phatbox or a Neo unit. The reason for this has nothing to do with the hardware. It's because the software on the empeg player has so many features I can't live without.

The software is clearly VERY important. But without the hardware the software would be unnecessary.

If the Phatbox didn't use cd chnager interface, they would have to have better software to compete with Empeg. If the Neo didn't connect through IDE, had something better than a 20x4 character LCD, and wasn't so cheap I'm sure the Neo would have to have better software to compete with Empeg.

The way I see it, the software is so advanced because the hardware allows for it. If the Empeg didn't have such a vicious VFD, there would be little need for visuals. The VFD also allows for such a refined interface.

I realize that this issue could be argued that the advanced software demanded better hardware. So, maybe they are more linked than I originally thought. It's just that if you take a Neo, Phatbox, and Empeg side by side, Empeg is the hands-down winner when it comes to hardware features. After you playwith them for a little bit, you realize Empeg has them beat in software as well.

I (respectfully) disagree with just about every single thing you just said.

Fair enough.

Damn it! It's impossible to get a good flame war started around here! Everyone's too polite and respectful!

While the hardware clearly rocks, I have to agree with tony on this one. The entire reason I was willing to spend so much money on this product was for one reason, and that was the ability to access a song by typing in the name. When I listen to music I have very sporadic tastes that a fixed playlist can never satisfy. When I want to hear a song, I want to hear it immediately - at least 50% of the songs I listen to are inserted into my playist a few seconds before the previous song ends (incidently, I couldn't believe that the INSERT option wasn't in v1 of the software, I never use REPLACE or APPEND).

While the hardware is pretty nice its life is short-lived (EOL). The software will continue to evolve and be transplanted into new devices keeping the Empeg team going and us consumers wanting more & more.

I (respectfully) disagree with just about every single thing you just said.

I don't. In his last paragraph Rob R. said it did occure to him that hardware design might have been dictated by needs of superior software.

I think that Hugo, after experience with his MP3mobile had quite clear picture of the features really user-friendly SW will have to have and usage patterns it would make possible (BTW, I don't believe we have seen all those features as yet). Some HW details became obvious then - like a need for a high-contrast graphical display. Some others were clear beforehand - like use of laptop as opposed to desktop disk drives. There must have been design decisions based on engineering and financial tradeoffs - like DIN-sized dash-mounted unit vs. remotely mounted one with a separate control panel, tuner placing and design, absence of power amplifier. Finally, opennes of the player (and its resulting geek appeal) did not come by accident, I suppose.

OK, It seems I am using Empeg differently than you or Tony. The fact is that whether I were using a Neo or Empeg, I would access tunes the same way. Artist -> Album -> Tunes. The advanced database is rarely of any use to me. This is why I like the hardware so much more. I had a first-gen Neo and it blew. AFAIK little has been improved in the way of quality.

I still think the software is result of hardware. ie: mp3mobile had an advanced database, but it lacked visuals and excellent UI because of hardware limitations.

Thanks Bonzi, I needed that!

The fact is that whether I were using a Neo or Empeg, I would access tunes the same way. Artist -> Album -> Tunes. The advanced database is rarely of any use to me.

Okay, I'll give you that. If you don't use the advanced features of the software, then the software is not as important.

That is what i was thinking is while the hardware has died it is the software that in my opinion that really was excellent.

Don't think in any way that i am slagging off the hardware as it really is first class. To me a pullout is the best solution.

So hopefully we will see the car player reborn i just hope it doesn't turn up in a expensive car as will have to buy one :(

But as i have said before the HSX squished into a smaller box and then replace the cd writer with a nice slot type cd drive you would have a rocking car player, might even be able to work in a incar nav solution.

The hardware failed because there are too many morons in this world. Some people can't tell a GB from a MB, and think a pullout design is a throwback to the '70s. Anyone savvy enough to know what they were looking at knows Empeg dominates.

I think another one of the reasons it never catch on big style was too big a leap like going from in car transistor radio to a 6 disc cd changer in one leap just too much for the mortal mind

Thats a big problem!
I told sooo many people about it when they were up for grabs cheaply, and they um'd and ar'd. Now they're all really jealous cos I wont sell them my spare

Dave

For what it's worth we always thought of empeg as a software company. Vastly more time has gone into the software than the hardware. It takes us just a few days to design a new hardware platform now (albeit so long as we can cut and paste bits and pieces from previous platforms).

Of course the car player software would not have been much good if the hardware hadn't been thought out, and vice versa. Now, though, we just write software and design the occassional reference platform.

Rob

Rob, I totally agree that Empeg is much more of a software company than a hardware company. It's just that if Sony made the Empeg, It would be lacking A LOT.

What was better the hardware player or the software.?

Not the slightest doubt here.

When multi-billion-dollar corporation Sonic Blue spent millions of dollars purchasing empeg, what did they buy? What did they really want?

Hint: They threw the hardware in the trash bin and kept the software development team.

tanstaafl.

Greetings!

Pity, though. It is such cool hardware...

The biggest thing Sony would lack, believe it or not, is the software. Both HW and SW are valuable intellectual property, don't get me wrong, but the hardware can be implemented in many ways to achieve the result we have sitting in front of us. The software needs a lot of work and rework and more rework to get to where it is now - and a lot more work for the future. Well coded and documented SW is extremely valuable, as well as the engineers who develop and maintain it.

For instance, it's easy for us (I work for ATI) to make any of our hardware Mac compatible. The biggest challenge is in creating new software. It takes a lot of development effort for our team. Nearly everything is new.

Bruno

When multi-billion-dollar corporation Sonic Blue spent millions of dollars purchasing empeg, what did they buy? What did they really want?

Hint: They threw the hardware in the trash bin and kept the software development team.


And since everyone around here thinks SB is the smartest and best run company we have ever seen ;-)

So we agree the hardware was the real value and I should go back and buy some more of those 20G players that seem to be back in stock :-)

-Mike

And since everyone around here thinks SB is the smartest and best run company we have ever seen ;-)

Damn, I was hoping nobody would think to bring up that point... because as anybody who has read my posts on this bbs knows, I have been a staunch supporter of SB from the very beginning, and have never had anything even remotely negative to say about them.

tanstaafl.

Burr-Brown DA converters, two drive slots and ethernet .... .drool... other than that, most of us have at one time or another complained about the display, buttons, scratched lenses or something else over time.

If you only have a few hundred tracks, I'd say it's a toss up. But everytime I give a demo, I say, "It has 8000 tracks on it and room for more. But tell me what your favorite song is (I hate when people try to stump me on this one!) and I'll find it in less than 20 seconds." And chicks love the visuals (by that I mean my wife of course!) None of that would be possible without software.