So, I'm hoping somebody has a similar situation and can offer some advice.

I have a pretty nice stereo system (Rotel Preamp and Amp with Tannoy speakers), and when I hook my Empeg up to it, it sounds like crap. If I set the Empeg volume to 0db and turn off all the EQ, I get MAJOR distortion. Even on Tori Amos! I have to turn the volume down to approximately -30db, and then I have to turn all the EQs down to like -10. This of course requires me to turn the volume of the preamp much higher...but at least it's a somewhat cleaner sound.

Even the .WAV file I put on the empeg sounded completely horrible compared to the CD through the system. I admit, the CD is playing on my DVD player via digital coax, and the Empeg with it's RCA outs can't compete...but it shouldn't sound as horrible as it does. I really want to use my Empeg more at home, but the sound is just bad.

Any suggestions on settings that I should try? Or will it just sound horrible due to the high quality of everything else in the system?

horrible in what way? white noise, compression warbling, lost highs/lows?

Or will it just sound horrible due to the high quality of everything else in the system?

Shouldn't do. Sounds like something is wrong somewhere. You haven't accidentally plugged empeg into a phono-equalised input on the preamp, have you?

Peter

I have my empeg connected to my NAD component system and it sounds basically the same as the original CDs. I have my empeg set to 0db, with the default EQ settings.

I have experienced this before. let me dig up the old thread with suggestions...

EDIT: Here it is

A phono (turntable) level input would be my best guess as well as those levels are much lower than line. My empeg is also as clear as CD for well-ripped tracks. The home stereo does a nice job of showing up lower-bitrate tracks though, as it's a bit quieter in my living room than my Subaru.

-Zeke

You haven't accidentally plugged empeg into a phono-equalised input on the preamp, have you?

Heh...I guess this is a common problem? I didn't realize that the Phono input was any different than another input. It just happened to be the only input I had open.

What exactly is different between the phono input and an AUX input?

NO NO! Never plug anything but a phonograph into the phono input! It is far more sensitive and set up to receive low level (not line level) input signals. It usually offers a ground as well.

Different levels (much lower as it's meant to take the input from a grammophone pick-up) and, IIRC, some equalising is done on the input too... Might be more, that I've forgotten...

Edit: s/input/output/

/Michael

Heh...I guess this is a common problem?

Calling Mr Faqbris...

What exactly is different between the phono input and an AUX input?

Phono(-graph) inputs are designed to be driven directly from the very weak signals produced in a record player's cartridge. AUX, or line-level, inputs are designed for much stronger signals.

Peter

If I 'm not mistaking the phono input does some pre-amping of it's own. So it's possible to blow that channel (or your entire amp) if you connect anything other than a phono to it. At least that's what they've always told me. Could be wrong though...
But this I'm sure : connecting anything other than a phono to a phono input = BAD!

Yes, probably amplifying it up to normal line level so that further "in" there's no difference between signals (as well as equalising it... RIAA-curve/equalising rings a faint bell somewhere in the fog of my brain)

/Michael

Cool...Now I just have to figure out how to connect it up with everything else. I think I might be able to share a Video in with something that is only using the video connector, but has open audio connectors.

Maybe I just have too much audio/video equipment?

One never has too much A/V equipment, only too few inputs!

Calling Mr Faqbris...

Okay, okay, okay, I'll put it in there. Should have been put into the owner's manual, though.

Should have been put into the owner's manual, though.

I bet the special properties of the phono input are mentioned in the pre-amp's owner's manual...

Peter

Seeing as you probably solved your problem, let us know how it sounds on the Rotel/Tannoy setup.

I've had the opportunity to compare the Empeg against the Ah!Toejb 4000 (tube based CD player) via A/B tests and found it to be essentially on par quality wise. Without going into too much detail, the empeg is slightly over-analytical to the point of harshness, but makes it back up with its tremendously near blank noise floor. In comparison, the tubed CD player has a large noise floor, due to the tubes, but a sweeter high end. Midrange is actually about equivalent to each other. The tube amped CD player has a 5V out, and the empeg has a 1V out (in home mode). The tube guys I've talked to indicated that the tremendously higher noise floor would not be as apparant if the tube player was recalibrated to 1V in fairness. This does leave me wondering how much dynamic detail has been sacraficed by running the empeg in 1V mode. *shrug*

I also had the opportunity to run the empeg through the paces on a SET (single ended tube) amp hooked up to a set of ESD electrostatic speakers. In this configuration I was able to compare the empeg with a nice vinyl record player. If you guys ever have the opportunity to do this, DO NOT DO IT. The empeg sounds like utter garbage. You'll be bowled over by how weak and unrealistic the empeg sounds compared to a record. A vinyl record with pops and hisses but presence so real that you give up and turn the empeg off.

So without going into immense detail, I'd say the empeg is audiophile quality in the price range of $500-$1500 source equipment.

Calvin "musings"

I bet the special properties of the phono input are mentioned in the pre-amp's owner's manual...

Good point.

I was able to compare the empeg with a nice vinyl record player.

The cost of the vinyl player was...?
I'll bet that you have to pay a few dollars extra to get that sort of quality. My old direct drive turntable certainly wouldn't compete with the empeg.

When I was shopping for my system, I listened to a bunch of different configurations.

The best had to be the $100,000 or more system. The speakers alone were $80,000, each having their own amplifier. The speaker cables were $8,000 a piece. They were hand-woven and about 3-4 in. in diameter. There was a CD player with separate DAC. I listened to my Afro Celt Sound System CD on it and was blown away. Also listened to some Opera. The soundstage was pretty unbelieveable. I was then kicked out so another guy could listen to a Beatles vinyl on it. Audiophiles...

When it comes down to it, my $2500 system (not including Home Theater) sounds pretty damn good, though. Audio equipment follows the rule of diminishing returns...

One never has too much A/V equipment, only too few inputs!

I guess I'll probably have to agree with you on that. I actually wouldn't have had this problem if I could hook my current LP to my system. Unfortunately, it's kind of built into my older system (Pioneer rack system), so it has a weird power plug. I'll probably end up buying a used one to hook up. I enjoy my vinyl, but I don't have tons of it.

The speaker cables were $8,000 apiece. They were hand-woven and about 3-4 in. in diameter.

Can somebody explain to me how the composition and/or size of a speaker wire can possibly have an effect on the sound the speaker produces, assuming the wires in question are of sufficient size to carry the electrical load? Perhaps a six-foot diameter speaker in a football stadium would consume enough electricity to require something larger than standard $0.85 cents/foot speaker wiring... but I cannot believe that a normal home system would.

Has anybody ever done double-blind tests comparing speaker wires? I have to think that anybody who claims to be able to hear the difference in speaker wires is just fooling himself.

tanstaafl.

Can somebody explain to me how the composition and/or size of a speaker wire can possibly have an effect on the sound the speaker produces

I don't really get it either. I've only used crappy wire vs. Monster cable and can't tell the difference. I saw this guy's site and I'm gonna try to make some of my own (I have a bunch of RG-6 doing nothing).

I believe it's something to do with the Eddy currents that are set up in the wires distorting the waveform or something like that. I'm with you on whether anyone can actually hear the difference though.

I'd discuss that question with you, Doug, but I make it a point not to discuss religion.

I say you can tell the difference between cables but as with all hi-fi its diminishing returns and has to be kept in perspective.

I COULD tell the difference when the left speaker was wired with different cable to the right. I didn't buy enough cable to complete the job properly. Both 'Budget' cables, but sounded different. Not radically, but I could certainly tell and was much happier when it was nicely balanced with the same type of cable.

$8000 speaker cable? Oy vey!

This is the wonder of digital. Bits is bits. As long as the bits get from here to there, you don't care about the distortion. That's why I was perfectly happy buying the $10 generic optical digital interconnect vs. the $40 Monster optical interconnect. If it works, then it works.

At the point where you're willing to spend $8000 on cables, there are so many other things you can spend that same money on and get significantly better sonic bang for your buck. For $8000 you could do some serious treatment to your room: window drapes, rugs, or even ugly sound-absorbing foam. If you want to go nuts, you can replace your dry-wall with magic sound-absorbing wall construction.

I wouldn't think of going beyond generic heavy-gauge household 120V electrical wiring for speakers until I had already spent the big bucks on making my room sound good. And, since I'm not interested in rebuilding my house around my stereo (no, that's for the next house ), I don't see the point in buying esoteric high-end gear. The odd angles and other acoustically-lacking architectural features of my house will kill any benefit that I might have maybe observed from gourmet cabling...

Here's a rundown of the system that I listened to...although it looks like they swapped out the speakers.

http://www.stereodesign.com/tour/room1.htm

I had this problem too when I first hooked my Empeg up to my Meridian system. What it turned out to be was that the Empeg outputs 1v on the RCA outputs. When I configured the Meridian system to accept 1v inputs...it works great...although...if I BOOST any of the EQ bands then it does some nasty digital clipping somewhere in the chain... but I'm usually careful to only cut with the EQ, never boost. I used it for a New Years eve party and cranked music all night no problems once I was setup for 1v inputs.

For your system, you may need to get a small voltage matching in-line device to make the line voltage levels match up. Possibly your system at home is 4v, which seems more common. My meridian was set to 2.5v and it was still distorting VERY badly until I set it up for 1v inputs.

Ok, so I hooked up the empeg through a line-level input (CD, since I have a DVD/CD combo). Wow, all the distortion went away. In my defense, though, the manual mentions nothing of the phono input being amplified. But, Rotel is pretty barebones when it comes to their documentation.

Here's my thoughts on some listening tests:
I put the original WAV as well as a LAME VBR version on the player. I also put the CD into my DVD player. I started the empeg and the CD at the same time so that I could flip back and forth.

I have to be honest when I say the empeg doesn't compare. The empeg (playing the .WAV file) sounded way flat compared to the CD. Dynamic range was significantly better from the CD. Everything sounded crisper and cleaner. The VBR file sounded exactly like the .WAV file, and the compression was approximately 7:1.

But, I think it's somewhat unfair to compare the empeg which is using regular old RCA interconnects to my DVD player which is using digital coax and has a 96khz 24-bit D/A converter.

So, I stopped comparing the two and decided to listen to the empeg. Ignoring everything else, the empeg sounds great! I'd compare the quality to what the CD sounds like on my Pioneer system. No distortion or clipping. I think you really need to sit down and listen really carefully to hear any noticeable degradation of the sound. Since I don't normally do this, I'm perfectly happy with the sound of the empeg.

So, in conclusion, part of the problem of having a good stereo system is that you tend to notice the inferiority of other products. I in no way mean to say that the empeg is a shoddy product. Merely that I tend to notice things on my system, like which CDs were produced well, and which were done in a cheap studio. And, although I'm sure we all would love to have an empeg with optical out and whatnot, it's more than advanced since its main objective is to play a lossy compression scheme.

Hope none of this came across poorly. Just observations.