Hi guys,

I haven't been able to find the answer in the docs or in the FAQ, but is this behavior meant by design?

I don't listen to the radio much, but I noticed that my Empeg stays on (when in radio mode) when I turn my car off, and when I pull out my ignition key. However, when in player mode the Empeg will go into standby mode, as it should, when I shut the car off and pull the ignition key out.

--Andrew

More info on this, BTW:

I have an MKII, 1.03 OS, I double checked the tuner extension cable which is wired 1:1.
--Andrew

This does not happen to me, and it sounds like some kind of a wiring problem if it happens every time.

Are you sure about it, can you reproduce it reliably? There is a known bug in 2.0b7 that behaves similarly to what you describe, but it is only intermittent.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it happens every time. I'll try it a bazilion times over the weekend. If it happens every time it you would think it would be some sort of wiring problem, but why the difference in bahavior between the player and radio modes?

I'm usually listening to MP3 music or audiobooks and I only noticed this recently when I pulled up to a gas station with the radio on. At the gas station I leave the key in the ignition anyway, so I was thinking it was normal behavior. Didn't think much of it until I noticed it several times and it started bothering me.

I'll dork with it when I get home.
--Andrew

Got me stumped. Might want to see if the behavior improves with 2.0beta7? Dunno.

There is a known bug in 2.0b7 that behaves similarly to what you describe, but it is only intermittent.

Sometimes when I turn my car off and take the key out, my player continues to play (no tuner installed) but without benefit of amplifiers, which are powered down, as is my Sony CD player. If I press and hold the top button, the player goes into standby for the duration of the timeout (60 seconds) and then comes back on again. Pulling the unit out of the dash and re-inserting it will fix the problem some times, but not others. Leaving it out of the dash overnight has always fixed it.

Is this the bug you are referring to?

tanstaafl.

No, that's not the bug I refer to. The one I refer to is the one where all front-panel input and IR input is completely locked out (known bug in beta7). When that happens, the ignition-sense command (which is also just an "input" to the player) is ignored and the player keeps playing when you pull the key.

Your bug describes being able to use the top button to sleep the player, so you're talking about something totally different. In fact, I've never heard of your bug before, and it surprises me. Have you talked to Hugo about it?

Hmmm, tried v2b7a, same behavior every time. So after I turn the engine off, pulling the Empeg out (with the radio playing) and pushing it pack in turns it off, and it stays off. In player mode it works just fine as before.

I'll have go through all my wiring with a fine toothed comb later today...
--Andrew

This may seem silly, but what kind of car do you have?

I know many GM cars that have powered accessories (until you open a door, that is) after you take the key out.

Its a '98 BMW M3.

As I mentioned in the original posts, but didn't say very clearly, heres what happens:

1) When Empeg is set to "Player mode", it goes into standby when I shut the engine off. Normal, as expected behavior.
2) When Empeg is set to "Radio mode", it continues to operate when I shut the engine off, and also when I remove the iginition key. I have to physicall pull the Empeg out to shut it off (or manually select "power off" from the menus.

I am flummoxed because from the car's perspective its the same power source, same wiring, all I'm changing is the "mode" of the Empeg. On the bright side is sor of forces me to remove the Empeg when I come to my destination. That's always a good thing.
--Andrew

hmmm maybe a funny coincidence, but my Mk2a does this occassionally (2% of the shutdowns) in my '98 BMW M3 (nice car btw). Never really listen to the radio, but sometimes I will turn off the car and the empeg will keep playing mp3s. don't think its a wiring issue, but the factory amp is still powered and pulling it out always stops it.

This confuses me, as well. Perhaps there's an unusual "route" for the power somewhere in that particular vehicle? Maybe there's some kind of a wiring fault that causes the tuner to somehow be supplying electricity to the ignition line?

Are you using the extension cable to the tuner module? Try removing it temporarily and plugging the tuner directly to the plug on the empeg.

Ooo, hey, you know, here is something that would cause the behavior you describe: If you are using the power antenna wire on the tuner, make sure it isn't connected to the ignition wire in any way. It should only be connected to the wire that powers the radio antenna, nothing else. Are you sure that's connected right?

hmm this is possible because I had intended to hook up the tuner's antenna power to our power antenna line, (which I think I did) but I get horrible reception on AM (fm seems ok). Both of these problems don't concern me to much, cause I rarely listen to the radio, and the player doesn't seem to come on randomly, just stay on, so its not a big deal to pull out(usually do that anyway). In any case, it is really rare. Maybe if I had a better reason to take my dash apart...

In fact, I've never heard of your bug before, and it surprises me. Have you talked to Hugo about it?

Let me do a bit of trouble shooting first. I want to try my "spare" 10GB empeg (with 1.02 software) and see if it does the same thing. If it does, then I know it is some kind of wiring problem in the car. If it doesn't, then it's possibly some kind of software bug in 2.0b7.

tanstaafl.

I think Tony might be on to something in terms what the power leads are wired to. I tried 1.03 and v2b7 with the same behavior. In my case (as opposed to johnmcd3) the behavior occurs every time.

I just haven't had a chance to rip out my Empeg sled to check the wiring...
--Andrew

I'm not sure if this issue was taken up in another thread somewhere (I couldn't find it), but let me add my data point.

I ran my original Mk2 in my car from July 2001, most recently with 1.03, with no odd behavior -- no suggestion of wiring problem. Then I ran 60GB Mk2a for a month or so with no problem. Tonight for the first time since upgrading the Mk2a to 2.0b11 and Hijack 2.96, I got behavior just like this. Turned off ignition, player kept playing. To test whether it might time out or something, I let it be while I went into a store. Came out 10 minutes later, the player was 3-4 song further down the playlist. To power it off, I pulled it out and reseated.

It seems like the player is running off constant positive somehow. The chances of this being a wiring fault I would say is less than 1%. I was able to reproduce the behavior in 3 subsequent trials.

More research to come.

....To test whether it might time out or something, I let it be while I went into a store. Came out 10 minutes later....

You're a brave man. You wouldn't catch me leaving my empeg alone in my car for 10 minutes

You're a brave man.

Not too brave. Glass storefront. Parked right in front. Well-lit spot. Car never left my sight. I still possess most of my carefully cultivated East Coast paranoia when it comes to crime. I will confess, though, that I once left the Empeg in the car during daylight when I ran into a grocery store for 3 minutes!

More research to come.

Well, I took my 2.0b11/Hijack 1.96 primary unit down to the boat this afternoon. Same exact behavior: Shut off the "stereo" breaker and it keeps playing off the constant positive (orange wire direct to battery +)

Next, I am going to downgrade my backup to 1.03 and repeat this test, but I would say that it's > 95% that it is a bug. Should I move this to Bug Reports. Is this issue already there but I missed it??

Actually I have noticed this behavior since upgrading to 2.0b11. It will continue playing about 1 out of 10 times. Sometimes it stops within a second, but I've seen it go for about 2 minutes. Definately some kinda bug because I haven't seen this issue with 1.02 1.03 or 2.0b3 or 7.

I'm slowly (because I'm a little slow...) coming to the conclusion that what I'm seeing is just a different manifestation of the Shutdown Timer Bug. See what you think. I may try playing around with the timer value to see if it changes the behavior.

Hi Jim
I think that these are unrelated bugs.

If I understand your post correctly, when you turn your ignition off, you player keeps playing for an indeterminate period of time. Almost as if the ignition sense wire was disconnected/not being polled etc.

In my case, when the ignition is turned off the player goes to standby immediately (ignition sense working). However the standby timer should dictate how long the player stays in standby (blue light on) before powering off completely (blue light off) In my case it always powers down ~20-30 minutes after ignition off.

Regarding your bug, I have noticed on a couple of occasions, that the player continues for perhaps a second after the ignition is switched of. This never really bothered me. It just seemed a bit strange as we are used to car radios shutting off immediately.

30-40 minutes would be a different story though...........

Cheers
PeterK

In reply to:

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If I understand your post correctly, when you turn your ignition off, you player keeps playing for an indeterminate period of time. Almost as if the ignition sense wire was disconnected/not being polled etc.

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Like the UI lockup bug, being discussed elsewhere, perhaps? Maybe it's another manifestation of the same issue?

Interesting bug/feature I have been getting since going to b11 -

Shut off ignition - empeg powers off correctly
Shut off ignition while pressing a button on the empeg - it stays on for at least an hour. I got fed up going out and checking it and gave up.

I quite like it, but not sure exactly why/how it does it.

OO, now if you could sleep it and it could stay slept without timing out, then that is a neat work around...

heh...you said sleep it...

Mmm - must play with timeout settings and stuff

On the other hand - no time to do that
I've just got a new empty 20Gb disk to fill. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!