Hi there! New member to the board here making his first post.

I got my spanking new Mk2a yesterday and after some trouble getting it connected via USB (don't put it on the same device as an ADSL USB Modem 'cos together they suck too much power & make u think your new toy is broken!) I know I've definitely made the right decision in buying one without securing a Tuner first.

My original plan was to wait until a reasonably priced Tuner became available before installing it in my car (Corrado VR6 Storm) but now that I've played with the thing in the flesh I just can't wait! I've decided to buy a second-hand centre console moulding and redesign it to take 2 DIN units which will allow me to install both my new pride & joy and my current Kenwood CD player/Radio as well. Now - putting aside the potential nightmare of getting the buggers mounted properly, I have a few questions to ask some of you guys regarding some potential wiring problems I might run into when trying to operate 2 units from 1 standard wiring loom. Please bear in mind that while I am extremely enthusiastic and my practical skills are more than up to the job, my technical knowledge is lacking and I need a little reassurance that what I plan on doing won't end in tears.

I plan on powering both Head units from the same main wiring loom and then connecting the Kenwood's 4v Line Output to the Empeg (can't bring myself to call it a Rio) via its Aux input. The first question here is would powering 2 units from the same loom be within acceptable operating parameters or would it be too much of a load? If so then how else would I be able to route both units through the same fuse in the fusebox?

Next, assuming we have cleared up the power issues above, I need a little clarification regarding the accessory wire. What I want to happen is this: Both units and the Amp should stay on when the ignition is turned off but all 3 should turn off when the Empeg is put into standby mode (ie pressing and holding the top button). I assume that to achieve this I would have to do the following:

1) wrap the accessory input wire and the 12v input wire on the Empeg to the main 12v power wire from the car (thus negating the turn-off-when-the-ignition-is-off problem)

2) Connect the 12v output "power antenna" wire from the Empeg to the Accessory Input wire on the Kenwood thus making it turn on and off when the Empeg goes in and out of standby mode (or is removed from its sled I guess).

3) Connect the 12v output "power antenna" wire from the Kenwood to the 12v input "Control" wire on the Amp in the boot (which will obvioulsy still draw its main power directly from the battery) thus making it turn on and off when the Kenwood does.

Would that work or am I being really stoopid?

Sorry for the length of the post but I have so many questions it's hard to keep them short!

hmm my thinking on this is that #1 would be ok if you could live with having to Power Off the empeg every time you leave your car.. this could get old fast.
#2 and #3 are really the same wire since the power control wire on your amp comes from the power ant output on the empeg.. this is probably a no-no since you don't know if the cd player you have draws a lot of power from the accessory line. I guess most CD players draw their main power from the battery but who knows you could have one that doesn't and drawing too much power from that power ant wire will probably do bad things to your empeg. What you really need for this is a relay.. a 12V relay that the empeg would turn on and off with it's power ant output. When it's on it would output the 12V battery wire to both your other head unit's accessory pin and your amp's power control. Of course the easiest and safest option is to buy a decent portable radio and hook it up to your AUX input on the empeg....

The empeg has an amp switching wire. If you use this to connect to both the amp and the acc power on your CD/Tuner you should get the behavior you want. Just be sure that the CD/Tuner and empeg's permanent 12V is on a _permanent_ 12V line, such as a direct (but fused) line straight from the battery.

Having the units stay on when the key is turned off is almost achieved with what I said above. When you turn the key off the empeg will enter 'sleep' mode. If you press the top button when it sleep mode the empeg will turn back on and if wired as above, also turn on your amp & tuner/CD. You can set the 'sleep' time from within emplode.

This being said, I'd advise you to read through all the FAQ's you can find as well as a thorough reading of the Manual. I think that you'll find answers to this and many other questions you haven't even thought of yet. Congratulations on your new toy. Mine is still as cool/even cooler then when I bought it (Aug. 2000).

-Zeke

Just for the heck of it... did you happen to read this FAQ entry on the subject? I know it doesn't answer all of your questions, but it does link a device that might make things simpler.

Ta for the input!

I'm fine with turning the unit off manually. My current Kenwood KDC-9050R (which does indeed draw its power from a separate Yellow 12v wire and turns itself on and off depending on the state of a red (ACC) wire) is set up with its main power and ACC wires both connected to the 12v supply coming from the ISO connector in the car. This is because I need to use the unit without the key in the ignition and the only way u can achieve this with the Kenwood is by powering the ACC permanently.

I haven't had the chance to try it out yet but if the Empeg is clever enough to allow the unit to be turned back on manually after power to its ACC wire is cut (ie key taken out of ignition) then that would be fine, I can connect it up as it is supposed to be (ie Orange on the Switched Accessories line and Yellow on permanent 12v) and still use it without the key. Having to turn it back on again once the key is removed isn't a huge problem.

If however it doesn't allow you to do this then I'll have to power both wires permanently which then brings up a further question:

It states in the manual that the Ignition Sense Input (Orange) wire shouldn't be permanently connected to 12v to "avoid excessive battery drain". Does this mean that even in standby mode the Empeg draws enough power to kill a battery if left over a few days or does it simply mean that if you do this you run the risk of leaving the unit playing by mistake? If it's the latter then that's ok 'cos I've been living with turning my radio off manually for years!



Oh and to avoid confusion, here's my original plan explained a little better.

Assuming that the Orange (Ignition Sense) wire HAS to be live in order for the Empeg to operate then I propose to wire my system like this:

1) The Empeg's Yellow (Permanent 12v) and Orange (Ignition Sense) wires would be wrapped together and connected to a permanent 12v source along with the Kenwood's Yellow (Permanent 12v) wire too. It's possible I could connect the Kenwood's yellow wire to a separate pernmanent 12v source if the combined load would be be too large otherwise.

2) The Empeg's Blue (Amplifier Remote Power On) wire would be connected to the Kenwood's ACC (Red) wire thus in theory causing the Kenwood to turn off when the Empeg is turned off manually.

3) The Kenwood's existing External Amplifier Control wire (pink/black if you're interested!) would connect to the amplifier's control terminal thus in turn switching it on when the Kenwood switches on. The only down side here is the Kenwood will have to active whenever the Empeg is in order for the amp to work but that's not a real problem.

Unless of course the Empeg could supply enough voltage down the blue wire to turn on the Kenwood AND the amp itself... but that's another question and this post is far too long already

oops! I didn't see your repy until I posted my second novel above... Thanks for the FAQ link, it goes some way to solving my problems

Ah and thanks as well to Zeke - that answers my question about whether the blue wire could switch two separate units or not... I guess it can!

Oh one thing though - does the Empeg go into sleep mode when u turn the engine off or when u pull the key out? I suppose that depends on the nature of the Switched Accesory line in my car but does anyone know if this varies from make to make or not? I'll have to get my multimeter out and check

I haven't had the chance to try it out yet but if the Empeg is clever enough to allow the unit to be turned back on manually after power to its ACC wire is cut (ie key taken out of ignition) then that would be fine,

Please read this FAQ entry for details on how this works.

The Empeg's Yellow (Permanent 12v) and Orange (Ignition Sense) wires would be wrapped together and connected to a permanent 12v source along with the Kenwood's Yellow (Permanent 12v) wire too.

I recommend against this, as you will probably get amplifier pops if you do this.

Instead, I recommend connecting both of them properly (constant to constant, switched to switched).

2) The Empeg's Blue (Amplifier Remote Power On) wire would be connected to the Kenwood's ACC (Red) wire thus in theory causing the Kenwood to turn off when the Empeg is turned off manually.


Make sure that the Kenwood ACC line is a "signal" wire only. Some radios draw their main power from the switched lead, using the constant only for memory. (see below)


3) The Kenwood's existing External Amplifier Control wire (pink/black if you're interested!) would connect to the amplifier's control terminal thus in turn switching it on when the Kenwood switches on. The only down side here is the Kenwood will have to active whenever the Empeg is in order for the amp to work but that's not a real problem.


Still sounds like a pain in the long term...


Unless of course the Empeg could supply enough voltage down the blue wire to turn on the Kenwood AND the amp itself... but that's another question and this post is far too long already


Voltage isn't the issue - current is. And that can be solved by a relay.
I'd have the empeg remote line (blue) turn on a relay (also solves the problem if the ACC in on the Kenwood draws a significant amount of power) which then powers the Kenwood ACC line and the amps remote in. If the Kenwoods ACC line is mere "signal" then the empeg remote out probably can handle both that and the amp, if not - use a relay.

Don't recall seeing anyone answer your question if your current 12V feed would be capable of handling 2 units. As you're not going to be using the power amp in the Kenwood, thereby drawing less than normal current, that shouldn't be a problem as the empeg doesn't draw all that much either.

/Michael

Aha! so what you are saying is that cutting power to the ACC line merely jumps it into standby mode which you can then jump out of manually? Cool!

Then all I have to do to turn it off again is put it back into standby mode manually and it'll automatically shut down completely after however many seconds you set the standby time to? Also cool! Us Brits are pretty damn clever!

But... say I want to turn the Empeg back on from a full shutdown - would I have to supply power to the ACC line (ie stick the key back in) or does the machine still poll the buttons when in full shutdown?

If it does then that's all my bases covered and I'll be able to happily stick to the intended wiring plan and everything in the garden will be lovely. Woohoo! This thing gets cooler by the minute Now I just have to hope that my Kenwood only uses its ACC line for signal info (which I'm sure it does) and then I'm pretty much sorted wiring-wise... now I just have to work out how I redesign my dash! I'll take pics for you all if I manage it...

Wish me luck!

oo! More input!

Thanks Michael, I'm quite sure the two will happily run off the same wiring loom too - it's quite robust cabling. I also am quite sure that the Kenwood's ACC line is signal only but I can't find any way of 100% confirming this so I guess I'll have to wait until I wire it up before I find out ;(

so what you are saying is that cutting power to the ACC line merely jumps it into standby mode which you can then jump out of manually

Correct.

Then all I have to do to turn it off again is put it back into standby mode manually and it'll automatically shut down completely after however many seconds you set the standby time to?

Not certain about that behavior, never tested it. At worst, it will just stay in standby mode.

But... say I want to turn the Empeg back on from a full shutdown

Then you need the key. This is by design. In practice, you rarely ever have to do this.

For altering its behavior in these situations, simply massage the standby time in Emplode. To make it behave like a regular stereo (always completely shuts on and off with the key), set the standby time to something very short (say, 3 seconds). To make it stay in standby indefinitely, set the standby time very high. I don't remember what the upper limit is for the standby time, but in Beta 11, it should be properly bounds-checked now and won't mess up the player any more if you set it too hight (there was a bug fix, you see. ).