My girlfriend's car is dying, and as we're both in a cash crunch I've been looking at alternative transportation. She has a 3.5 mile commute to work. It dawned on me this afternoon that this can be covered inexpensively using an electric bike. What are the recommended electric bikes? It turns out that Ford's Think program is discontinuing their electric bike line and selling them off at firesale prices ($595). That's got a 22 mile range per charge. Is there anything better+cheaper?

Calvin

This was on TechTV's Fresh Gear just last night!
http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/products/story/0,23008,3373930,00.html

The reviews sound mostly like advertisements and they don't really make recommendations. On the specs alone, it seems that the Th!nk bike is on par with the eBike for 40% less. But is it better? Epinions doesn't seem to have anything. Oh well.

Calvin

On the show they rated the LaFree and Think about the same but gave the LaFree their recommendation. They totally dissed the Zap because it wouldn't work at all.

I just found the LaFree site. That's a pretty sweet setup! It's a $1000 though. :-(

Calvin

My regular bicycle cost over $1000 I guess you don't want to spring for a gas-powered scooter, huh? The sit-down kind, not those stand-up things.

Bruno

$1000 for a bike!? I have a friend that bought a car for $75 and another for $500. Both of them worked.

I have war stories and scars on my leather jacket, and a cracked rib from squeezing the throttle on a modded out gas scooter! The stand up kind. Ouch!

:-D

I test drove my first electric bike yesterday. The LaFree, a 3 year old model. And all I can say is ...... WOW!!!!!!! You get this surge of power and it's completely silent. It feels like everything is downhill. :-D

I'm going to try to test drive a few other models. If you have a dealer for this near you, definitely give it a try. :-)

-- gas powered scooters drawbacks are 1) loud and draws attention or 2) requires a motorcycle license or 3) expensive, etc.

Calvin

They tested the LaFree and the folding version of the Think. Compare the $595 Ford Think Fun with the $999 LaFree and the specifications are exactly the same. I think the Ford even comes with cruise control and better instrumentation. I think the Ford sold for much more but they've discontinued it and are now selling it off at below cost.... sounds familiar?? I looked around and it seems the bike is sourced from the same manufacturer so it's essentially the same bik.

Anyway, if the Lafree is any indication, the bike is worth it. Go test drive one! Mount an Empeg on one! :-D It has electrical power...

Calvin

How about a Segway?

Id rather walk

I sure think she could ride a regular bike 3 miles thats good excercise.and only about a 15 min ride.

$1000 for a bike!?

The least expensive bicycle I own probably cost twice that.

As in so many things, you get what you pay for with bicycles, up to the point of diminishing returns, that is. In bicycles, that point is probably in the $1500 area. I can make a very good case about why a $1500 bicycle is much better than a $900 bicycle in terms of performance, ruggedness, reliability, and function. However, a $2500 bicycle is not likely to be much better (in real, measurable terms) than a $1500 bicycle.

tanstaafl.

I think skateboards are going for pretty cheap these days...

They tested the LaFree and the folding version of the Think. Compare the $595 Ford Think Fun with the $999 LaFree and the specifications are exactly the same. I think the Ford even comes with cruise control and better instrumentation. I think the Ford sold for much more but they've discontinued it and are now selling it off at below cost.... sounds familiar?? I looked around and it seems the bike is sourced from the same manufacturer so it's essentially the same bik.

Anyway, if the Lafree is any indication, the bike is worth it. Go test drive one! Mount an Empeg on one! :-D It has electrical power...


Yeah, but does it have a DIN slot?

The bicycle analogy you just made is hard to make an example of. The way manufacturers put things together is scary sometimes.

A $2500 bike can be 10 times more rugged than a $1500 bike. Your bike can have most of its cost in components and have a completely crap frame. Or you can have adequate components and a bullet-proof frame. Ti isn't the only metal that takes the costs way up. Composites too of course.

My younger brother pieced his bike together himself. He took it in for a tuneup last summer (or the summer before that) and a few guys at the show were all "wow." "Crap, you've got at least $6000 of stuff on there!" (CDN $$) No doubt the bike would have retailed for at least that up here near Toronto. My brother didn't pay close to that, managing to find all sorts of great deals in and around the net over a couple of years.

And my bike was about $1000 before swapping out to a few better components. Even though the swaps didn't cost me that much, having had those things on the original retail purchase would have put it well over the $1500 range back then. And that's for a hard-tail mtb with no front suspension. The dynamic of the mtb marketplace has changed a bit over the past few years. Lots of nice goodies out now too.

Bruno

When buying bicycles, less is more - weight and price that is. Zipp has a wheel set for 2002 at 960 gms total for $3000 (US). Handbuilt carbon tubulars with a limited run of 200. If you can stand another 180 gms the price drops to $1100 (US).

http://www.zipp.com/wheels/index.html

Where can I learn more about bikes? Can you enlighten me as to the difference between a $900 bik versus a $1500 bike?

Calvin

Where can I learn more about bikes? Can you enlighten me as to the difference between a $900 bik versus a $1500 bike?

Bicycling Magazine.

Bicycle Guide Magazine.

The big differences are in light weight, stiffness, and ruggedness.

WEIGHT: A good place to start is light weight. I have always maintained that it is so difficult and so expensive to make a bicycle really light weight that the manufacturer will have already taken care of the basics on the way to making it light. There is no percentage in hanging $1200 of components (or $4,000 for that matter!) on a poorly-made heavy frame. Conversely, it makes little sense to spend a lot of time and money building a really good frame and then hang low-end components on it.

Another thing to consider is riding habits. You can look at a top of the line Shimano XTR component set that sells for perhaps $400 more than a lower level XT set, and yes, it will be lighter, but not a [lot] lighter. You're probably looking at a 23 pound XTR mountain bike vs a 24 pound XT mountain bike. And initially, the XT components (shifters, brakes, pedals, derailleurs, hubs, freewheel, headset, bottom bracket, chainrings) will work exactly as well as the XTR. But, ride in competitive conditions with so much mud caked on the freewheel that you can't even see the cogs and the derailleur - and the XTR will keep going when the XT might fail.

I am a competitive cyclist. Actually, I need to re-phrase that: I enter bicycle races, but am hardly competitive at it. I have raced in two national championship road races (DNF one of them with a flat tire; finished in the top 90% in the second one*) but I do not consider myself to be a caliber of rider that would need XTR components. XT is perfectly adequate for my purposes even though most people would say I was a pretty serious cyclist.

STIFFNESS The lighter you make something, the less stiff it becomes. This can only be overcome with the infusion of significant amounts of money. Surprisingly, there is no magic wand you can wave to solve this, like building everything out of .04-Gage Unobtanium or something. Aluminum is lighter than steel, everybody knows that. But... the weight of an aluminum tube that will resist X amount of bending force is astonishingly similar to the weight of a steel (or titanium or magnesium) tube capable or resisting the same forces. Composites like carbon fiber are not the answer, either. While they are enormously strong in tension, they are less than satisfactory in compression, and virtually all of the stress loads in a bicycle frame are compression.

RUGGEDNESS It is easy and cheap to make a bike rugged. Just go down to your local department store, and lift the kids bikes for sale there. These are bikes designed to take all the punishment a 10 year old can dish out -- and many of them will weigh in excess of 40 pounds. Anybody can make a bike that will stand up to all sorts of abuse if they don't mind adding an extra 15-20 pounds to it. But to make it light weight, stiff, and rugged all at the same time... well, that's where the difference between a $900 bike and a $1500 bike comes in.

And why would anybody care if it has all three of those attributes?

I can only speak personally to that question. YMMV, depending on whether you bike for transportation or for enjoyment. Surprising as it might seem, I work much harder on a top quality road bike than I do on a cheap bike. A cheap bike, I sit on the seat, push the pedals around, and the bike goes forward. Blah. Little reward for the effort given. A high-end bike is different -- I step on the pedal, and the bike jumps. It is so lively and so responsive to my every input, that I want more of that feeling. I give more to get more. And before I know it, my heart rate is at anaerobic threshold, I am down on the drops, the legs hurt but they hurt so gooooddd... and incidentally, I am also going about 30-40% faster than I could go at the same workload on the lesser bike.

Mountain bike is same but different. There is something inherently satisfying about having a machine that just works and does everything I ask of it. Click the shifter, and it changes gear perfectly, every time. One finger on a brake lever gives enough power to lock either wheel on dry pavement. Stuck in a wheel-rut on a dirt trail? Good suspension and frame geometry means I just think about climbing out and the bike does it without drama. Rebound damping is perfect thanks to that $300 rear shock. 27 gears gives me the right gear for every speed from 1.5 mph to 45 mph, and I get to look on with amused tolerance at other people in the ride/race who are fighting chain suck, poor shifting, bad handling...

It's difficult to put hard numbers on bicycles (other than how much they weigh) because so much of the differences/advantages/disadvantages are intangible, but nonetheless real. To really understand the differences, you pretty much have to experience them in person -- not just a ride around the block, but for an hour or two. And don't even try to evaluate a mountain bike by riding it on pavement.

tanstaafl.

*"...top 90%." Think about it...

A high-end bike is different -- I step on the pedal, and the bike jumps.

Amen, brother. Amen to that whole post. Getting a £600 Kona after ten years plugging away on a Raleigh that cost £120 in 1990 was a darn-near life-changing event.

I've still got the Raleigh for commuting (there's no secure bike storage at Planet Empeg) but if I forget, at the weekend, that I've changed bikes, I pull the front wheel of the Kona off the floor on corners because that's how much effort it takes to turn the Raleigh, and every Monday morning on the way to work it's "Oh no, the brakes have stopped working! Oh, hang on, no, they were always like this."

Peter

Electric Bikes? Yeah I saw one once but, geez people, how lazy can you be? Get some freakin exercise.

As for the $2000 bikes, you gotta be nuts. Yeah, I am sure they are excellent bikes, but I have been content with my $250 bike for years and if it gets stolen of damaged I don't have to get too upset.

If I knew for sure the bike would never get stolen or damaged then I'd spend some more money, but the whole idea of a bike in the city is to help you get around, and that means parking it places where it can get messed with.

Plus, the extra weight means I have to work harder to go the same speed as a lighter bike, and I like that idea because I want the exercise..

-John M

What teams & years in the National Championship? I'm impressed (loved the top 90% finish thing). I'll dig out my back issues of Velonews. I was competitive as a Cat III but never raced more than state/regional races.

I've got a sub 17 # Unobtanium (60 cm) which I love but since it is indestructable, kind of getting sick of it - staring at the same top tube for 3 or 4 years gets old. One of the fun things about cycling is new equipment which you can use as self rewards to keep you motivated.

An amen to the post - except Bicycling Magazine. Velonews for me.

The Ford Th!nk and the LaFree are electric assisted bikes (pedelecs) and are not moped like. There is no throttle, and they do not propel you if you don't pedel. You have to put in the some pedaling force, and they are designed to disengage the clutch after 20mph and then you're on your own. To be honest, it feels like a supercharged bike. If you pedal softly, you will get very little response. if you slam down hard on the pedals it will assist in really torquing down the rear wheel. You will most definitely be getting exercise on one of these! The positives are for the same amount of exercise you go 4 times the distance so it's a fair trade -- exercise that makes a commute possible.

Calvin

but the whole idea of a bike in the city is to help you get around,

If that is why you are biking, then yes, you are correct. You are not biking for enjoyment, you are biking because it is easier than walking. Under those conditions I wouldn't have a $250 bike -- I would have a $15 garage sale bike, spray-painted (tires, seat, everything) some hideous orange color and wouldn't even bother to lock it.

My commute is about ten miles each direction, and the route I take is fun to ride -- a little-used bike path in excellent condition that follows a riverbank up and down and around the corners and over little covered bridges, just as fast as I want to (or have the ability to) go. My commute is one of the best parts of my whole day, and I wouldn't dream of spoiling it by riding some sort of bike that just plods along with no enjoyable feedback.

I guess the reason I spend what I do on bicycles is the same as why you bought a Maxima instead of Sentra. Either one will get you from point A to point B, but which one is the better ride?

tanstaafl.

What teams & years in the National Championship?

Teams? You gotta be kidding, right? I'm from Alaska, which means that we got to send one rider in each age category to Nationals.

The first Nationals I raced in was in Bear Mountain, NY, and I think it was 1981. I finished one and a half laps, barely hanging onto the back of the pack before I flatted. Of course the follow cars were following the lead group(s) so we backmarkers were on our own.

Second time was in Park City, Utah, probably around 1985. I got to watch Wayne Stetina give a lesson in bike handling: he'd go into the tight left-hander at the bottom of the hill a good five or six MPH faster than anybody else had the courage to do, coming out of the corner with a six bike-length lead every lap forcing everybody to sprint to get back up to him. After 10 laps there were only a handful left who'd even try it. After 20 laps, he was all alone and just rode off solo to the win. (I got to watch this because he raced in a different age class) In my race I cheered every time the leaders lapped me because it was one less lap I had to ride! The hill was so steep... I had 42x26 cogs (can you imagine? In a national championship race!) and by the time we were 10 laps into it, the riders around me had stopped making fun of my granny gear! Stetina had a prototype 7-speed freewheel on his bike (he worked for Shimano then) -- the first one I ever saw.

My current road bike is a Titanium Kona, mixture of Dura-Ace and 105 components, on Specialized Tri-Spoke wheels, about 18.5 pounds. (The Tri-Spokes are heavy, but they are *fast*)

I was a Cat III racer, and could have upgraded to CAT II, but only because in Alaska the race fields were so small that anybody could come in first-second-third in enough races to qualify for the upgrade. Since I couldn't even keep up with the "real" CAT III racers, it would have been silly to try and race as a CAT II.

tanstaafl.

Check out the Surly Cross-Check. www.surlybikes.com

Not too expensive, but it can tour, go off road, be a road bike, etc. I put STIs on it and put on a 105 triple crank...

- Jon

Is it COLD riding in Alaska? If it's below 25F I won't ride ... I run. I've got a Litespeed Vortex but my favorite bike is my Ibis Hakkalugi Cross - Gan Green Paint built with Moron tubing.

Is it COLD riding in Alaska? If it's below 25F I won't ride ...

Depends on the season... temperatures vary from seventy degrees below zero (Fahrenheit) in the worst of the winter to very close to 100 degrees above zero in the summer.

In the wintertime we have some of the best mountain biking you could imagine. We get an informal group together every Sunday afternoon and go trail riding. There are literally hundreds (perhaps thousands) of miles of trails that can be ridden in winter within a half-hour's drive of downtown. Most of these trails are not usable in summer time but in the winter they are kept serviceable by hundreds of dog-sled teams (both recreational and competetive); thousands of snow machiners; and hundreds of cross country skiers, ski-jourers, hikers, four-wheelers, and cyclists. Everybody you meet out on the trails is friendly and considerate, vying to see who can get off the trail first to make room for the other.

Last Sunday we rode for four hours, 2400 feet of elevation gain, close to 30 miles of trails -- and in the entire time we met up with two snow machines, nothing else. We had the trails to ourselves. The fun thing about winter riding is you can do pretty silly things and not pay a harsh penalty because the snow is soft. If you make a mistake and do an endo over the handlebars, you'll get no pity or sympathy, nobody will ask "Are you all right?" -- they'll just laugh and point at you as they ride by, watching you get the snow out of the back of your neck.

Some folks ride in temperatures as cold as it gets but I don't ride below minus 20 Fahrenheit. Not because I can't stay warm, but because it isn't fun: the grease in the bike is so stiff that nothing works very well -- brakes, gears, pedals, etc. Because I have to wear so many layers of clothing, I can't pedal efficiently, the clothing restricts movement, so it is a lot of work for little reward. On the other hand, you would be amazed at how little clothing is necessary at zero to ten above. If you didn't see the bike, you would think I was dressed for cross country skiing: polypro shirt and long johns, a pair of lycra tights, a polar fleece jersey, and a windbreaker, plus, of course, helmet, gloves, boots, and balaclava. I could wear the entire outfit indoors at office temperatures and while I would be warm and snug, I would not be uncomfortably hot.

In the summertime we have organized Tuesday Night rides that explore the summer trails; Monday night training rides for the Roadies; Wednesday night Women-only rides; and Thursday night races, alternating MTB and Road.

I know it sounds strange, but interior Alaska is a cycling paradise all year round.

tanstaafl.