Today I had to "educate" someone to the fact that cars racing in NASCAR have no relevance to cars in production. Because Sterling Marlin's Dodge won a race doesn't mean that a Dodge is (or isn't) a good car.

This got me to thinking: Is there ANY part in a NASCAR race car that is made by the "manufacturer" of the car (i.e, Ford, Chevrolet, Pontiac, or Dodge)? I am not talking about major components like engines or differentials; I am going right down to bolts, nuts, and washers, and I maintain that if you were to completely disassemble Sterling Marlin's "Dodge Intrepid", you could not come up with a single piece, not a nut, or a washer, or a piece of wire or a light bulb, that was the same part and used for the same purpose in a real Dodge Intrepid you can buy at the dealer.

Maybe, just maybe... the washers under the spark plugs might be the same. But I bet not -- they are probably using 14mm spark plugs in those 1960's style NASCAR engines, and modern engines for the most part are using 10mm plugs.

Can anybody document a part from a currently produced car that is used unmodified for the same purpose in a NASCAR racing car?

tanstaafl.

Well, the shape of the body is the same, so you might be able to argue about aerodynamics....

Gives a whole new meaning to the word ``stock'', doesn't it?

Well, the shape of the body is the same,

Oh, yes, absolutely. My Taurus is exactly 51 inches tall, has fender flares sticking out four or five inches on each side, a front spoiler that rides two inches above the pavement, a 6.25" spoiler sticking up off the rear deck, and just two doors. NOT!

I am reasonably car savvy, but the only way I can tell a NASCAR Chevrolet from a Pontiac from a Dodge from a Ford is by looking at the grille.



tanstaafl.

Umm, NASCAR "vehicles" don't have two doors, do they?

Bruno

All NASCAR is, is an excuse for rednecks to get rowdy and drunk. Its not racing a monkey can turn left for 400 miles. Real men watch INDY or CART. Need I say more?

Well, it was my understanding that the chassis shape was based closely on the car that it was supposed to be a stock model of. But I guess I could easily be wrong, since I've spent approximately 15 minutes in my life watching NASCAR.

Indy or Cart? Same thing. And you'll find an oval or two in there. It's just a different crowd of drunks.

Maybe you meant to write Formula1 or Rally.

Bruno

Indy is the poor-man's Formula1 (and for drivers that would not stand a chance in F1).

Maybe you meant to write Formula1 or Rally.

Rally -- Yes.

Formula 1 -- No. Enormously sophisticated cars, boring to watch. After the first two laps, the elder Schumacher is in the lead with his Ferrari, maybe a McLaren or a Williams car is in second place, more likely the second Ferrari, and then chances are no car will pass another car on the track for the entire remainder of the race. I predict that nothing other than Ferrari, McLaren, or Williams will win a race this year.

Yawn. I'd rather watch a tractor pull. (Hey, I'm serious! Have you ever looked at one of those monsters? Think of the mechanical ingenuity that goes into coupling seven supercharged Keith Black hemi engines into one driveline running six-foot-tall rear tires. Those "tractors" are fantastic if you have a love of machinery.)

tanstaafl.

All the cars are built from the ground up, so I don't see why they bother to call them a brand, except for sponsorship.

Well yeah but F1 and rally only come on occasionally on speedvision(damn NASCAR). I mean at least the Indy and CART cars are set up for road racing. Personally I like watching the SCCA events on speedvision.

Well yeah but F1 and rally only come on occasionally on speedvision(damn NASCAR)

Speed Channel has certainly made a huge commitment to NASCAR (yawn...), but they have made some other moves that are (mostly) good. Instead of 1-hour, 2-week-delay WRC coverage, they are providing 1-hour, same-day coverage for each 3-day WRC event. Plus, they are repeating them (the repeat of Day #1 of the Tour de Corse is starting at this very minute). The drag strip announcer that they engaged to do the narration doesn't know sh*t about rally and is very annoying, but the extended coverage is great.

Jim

For the record, the "profile" shape of the cars has to match the production vehicle - exactly. So, the rake of the windshield, length of the roofline and angle of the rear glass have to match - exactly. They have these huge cutouts of the original shape and before each race, this huge cutout is placed along the top of the cars. There can be no varience.

A few years ago, GM officially complained to Nascar that the Fords (remember the "round" Tauruses?) were too aerodynamic. Ford was winning left and right that year. I think now that they may adjust the cars so they each have the same drag co-efficient, but I'm not sure but the cars still have to maintain that shape. As far as actual parts.... I don't know.

Yes, it is a far cry from the original concept of "stock". That is why I love Rally so much (even over Formula 1). They modify the heck out of those, but they still use a rear car to make them. And, they have to have the same engine block (rules in Rally indicate no engine over 2.0 liters - that is why there are so many 2.0 liter engines on the road).

Jim I agree with you there. While Speed Vision had some good stuff, I hated all the infomercials! All day long! The new Speed Channel is very Nascar heavy, because of the new ownership, but hopefully that will give way to Grand Am racing and such. Or how about some SCCA US Rally coverage?!?

I think you meant "real" car. And I haven't seen many Rally cars, including the Imprezza, where that much of the real car is left. Those cars are not as upgrade-simple as some people would like to think. Some guys think that because they're driving an Imprezza, they're sitting in a Rally car. Umm, no. That coupled with their poor driving skills is fun to watch (this happened again just yesterday on the way to work). Nothing in comparison to NASCAR which is obviously using only the name. Go-karts with lexan shells put around the most boring and identical tracks in the world.

And back to F1. Yes, the Ferraris have been good for a couple of years. But stick Michael Schumacher in a lesser car and he'll still clean up the track with most other drivers. Racing is about the entire package, F1 has the best cars (engine makers and constructors) _and_ the best drivers. And no ovals. It also has the best looking fans (though you have to skootch over to a race city in person).

Bruno

No, but I can very definitely tell you that the fulcrum pins on Mario's wagons for about the last six years have been turned on my mate's lathes in Lychett Matravers, Dorset, UK: also a significant number of NASCAR nose cones/front spoilers/tail mouldings are made in a hugely expensive autoclave at a small (but extremely profitable) factory in Bookham, near Leatherhead, right next to the Photo-Me passport photo booth factory. They throw the old F1 tyres over the fence into another mate's back garden, and BOY, is he pissed about it. He's thinking of ringing the council to complain.... there goes the bloody neighbourhood

Bruno, I have been lucky enough to see a few rally cars up close. Mainly the WRC Focus. The crew chief admitted that the only original parts left on these things are a few bits of glass (lights), dash peices and the chasis. But I'd say that's pretty significant. Because when you see a WRC race, look at the interior shots. The dash is the same in the WRC Focus as it was in my Focus and same with the WRC Impreza and my Impreza WRX. This also means that the rally cars have the same wheelbase, real working doors, etc. Sure, the transmission is changed (the Focus can't get AWD without tens of thousands of dollars in mods) there is about a mile of pipe welded in for rollcage, the engine only shares the block, etc etc. But I've seen photos of the factories (Prodrive, Cosworth) where they actually take cars off the assembly line and spend months changing them. Subaru even did a piece on the US SCCA rally cars and how similar they are to the consumer cars.

Now, all that said, I'm smart enough to know that I can't take my WRX off road and expect the same toughness or performance. If EVERYONE knew that, maybe my insurance would stop going up becuae of all the boy racers crashing their rides!